bjkadron
Well-Known Member
That is light. I am trying to keep all the stiffness and more of the factory unibody so it makes some of that stuff harder. But that is a nice race weight. What engine are you running?
How much weight can you shave off of an A-Body...and still have it look/drive like an A-Body?
- Thread starter MRGTX
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Currently the car has a 408 stroker in it, I'm in the final stages of finishing a 416 to put in it.
Do you have frame connectors and tork boxes ?
Frame connectors, double adjustable ladder bars, QA1 double adjustable coil over rear shocks.
That'll work
Dartnut
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful
Start out with a very rusty car.
Then reinforce the areas of concern with old bed frames, exhaust tubing, and cardboard taped to the floors to seal them up.
Whatever is cheap and easy.
Only go as far as you have to go to keep the car from folding in half.
This should shave off ~ 1000 lbs. or so from a factory car.
Then remove all of the factory emblems off it and put Chevy ones on.
People are going to call your car a Nova or Chevelle anyway...
Then reinforce the areas of concern with old bed frames, exhaust tubing, and cardboard taped to the floors to seal them up.
Whatever is cheap and easy.
Only go as far as you have to go to keep the car from folding in half.
This should shave off ~ 1000 lbs. or so from a factory car.
Then remove all of the factory emblems off it and put Chevy ones on.
People are going to call your car a Nova or Chevelle anyway...
Yeah that's the one I mentioned earlier. I sure wouldn't go that far, but he honestly had a point. You certainly could do similar. But I really think that car was no longer structurally sound. I don't really know that because I've never seen it in person, but that was a heck of a lot of metal he removed. He has the right idea....maybe just went a little far.Wasnt there a uncle tony one where he took a hole saw to all the unseen sheet metal?
Reminds me of the Swiss Cheese Pony-ac what was it?? Catalina??? HOLE saw ate it up!? Back in the day.
I remember readin about that car! Here it is!
1963 Pontiac Catalina 421 Super Duty ‘Swiss Cheese’
1963 Pontiac Catalina 421 Super Duty ‘Swiss Cheese’ As the 1962 drag season drew to a close, it was obvious that Pontiac’s position at the top of the Super Stock hierarchy was weakening. Ford, Chrysler and Chevrolet were gaining on the Chiefs with bigger engines and an ever-increasing supply of...
www.supercars.net
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Here is the UTG video about his dart. Obviously a lot of these tricks are drag only (not for street or autocross/Road racing) but some interesting things to think about.
67autocross
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
I had my all iron small block except intake 72 valiant down at 2900..in drag race mode…I would guess you could get another 200 out of it with a glass hood, aluminum engine components and lighter seats…add 50 to 75 back on if you’re looking for something with modern brakes and 18 inch wheels
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Nice! What all did you do? I'd be happy with anything under 3000# initially with the bigger wheels/Brakes/rear.
Shedding weight takes a bit of thought.
I liked the idea of cutting down some of the fasteners that are longer than they need to be.
When you look at what the factories did with the Feather Duster and Dart Lite, you see that they reduced the weights of those cars by 200+ lbs with no adverse effects on driveability.
Aluminum is a great substitute for intake manifolds, radiators, brackets and other things but there comes a point where shedding weight becomes a costly effort. The batteries we use weigh around 40 lbs but a same size Lithium titanate battery is 7. That is great but that Lithium battry costs around $500.
In 2022 I had the engine out of my Charger. I used a car lift and engine/trans dolly to do the removal and installation from underneath. At that time I changed from the tried and true 12" Cordoba brakes to a Dr Diff 13" "Cobra" setup. That shed 14 lbs and provided better stopping force. The Borgeson steering box was 12 lbs lighter. A late model spacesaver spare was 30 lbs lighter too. The lug pattern isn't exact but would work for getting the car off the side of the road and to a safe place.
Aftermarket seats can be lighter. I have Neon SRT 4 seats which are non power but do recline. They were 11 lbs lighter each compared to my stock 1970 High back buckets.
Chew on this fact: Those that relocated the battery to the trunk for better weight distribution did so at the expense of all the extra weight from the longer cables and wiring that run from the trunk back forward to the engine. I have the battery in the trunk and figure that If I can find a narrower Lithium battery to put up front, I could save 50 lbs. The battery alone would be 33-34 lbs less, then add in all the 1/0 starter cable, the 4 ga ground cable front to rear, the battery box, the solenoid, the trunk ground cable too.
Fiberglass body parts are a trade-off. They rarely fit right so for a street car, you're sacrificing appearance for a weight reduction.
For a time, I wondered if I was spending too much time searching for weight loss ideas. I don't drag race the car but I might autocross it. What is a few extra pounds on an autocross car anyway?
I liked the idea of cutting down some of the fasteners that are longer than they need to be.
When you look at what the factories did with the Feather Duster and Dart Lite, you see that they reduced the weights of those cars by 200+ lbs with no adverse effects on driveability.
Aluminum is a great substitute for intake manifolds, radiators, brackets and other things but there comes a point where shedding weight becomes a costly effort. The batteries we use weigh around 40 lbs but a same size Lithium titanate battery is 7. That is great but that Lithium battry costs around $500.
In 2022 I had the engine out of my Charger. I used a car lift and engine/trans dolly to do the removal and installation from underneath. At that time I changed from the tried and true 12" Cordoba brakes to a Dr Diff 13" "Cobra" setup. That shed 14 lbs and provided better stopping force. The Borgeson steering box was 12 lbs lighter. A late model spacesaver spare was 30 lbs lighter too. The lug pattern isn't exact but would work for getting the car off the side of the road and to a safe place.
Aftermarket seats can be lighter. I have Neon SRT 4 seats which are non power but do recline. They were 11 lbs lighter each compared to my stock 1970 High back buckets.
Chew on this fact: Those that relocated the battery to the trunk for better weight distribution did so at the expense of all the extra weight from the longer cables and wiring that run from the trunk back forward to the engine. I have the battery in the trunk and figure that If I can find a narrower Lithium battery to put up front, I could save 50 lbs. The battery alone would be 33-34 lbs less, then add in all the 1/0 starter cable, the 4 ga ground cable front to rear, the battery box, the solenoid, the trunk ground cable too.
Fiberglass body parts are a trade-off. They rarely fit right so for a street car, you're sacrificing appearance for a weight reduction.
For a time, I wondered if I was spending too much time searching for weight loss ideas. I don't drag race the car but I might autocross it. What is a few extra pounds on an autocross car anyway?
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
All good points. Brakes also get the extra benefits of being un-sprung and rotating mass so extra benefit.
Just a note, there are cheaper batteries that are a lot lighter. I will probably keep mine up front as well just because of all the cabling you mentioned. I was thinking of doing it inset into the passenger fenderwell near the firewall to keep it up front but move it to a better position.
Do you know what the SRT4 buckets weighed? I have a bench currently so I don't know how much the stock buckets weigh.
I feel that for autocross and road racing the effects of weightloss are even more significant. You get benefits on not just your acceleration but turning and braking as well. Also benefits of less wear and stress on consumables and other parts. kinda depends if you are doing it for competitive advantage though.
I keep notes on a lot of stuff but some of it isn't as detailed as it should be. I only wrote down the difference in weight, not what they actually weighed. I have another pair of those seats up in my attic that I could weigh sometime but I'm nursing a sore back right now!
Send me a PM sometime later and I'll see about getting a number for you.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
That seems like a lot of work. haha. If you don't have it on hand I'll do some internet sleuthing and see what I can find.
EDIT: Looks like they are between 39-45lbs. Which is pretty light for a modern seat.
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jos51700
Green Bearing thread connoisseur
I've wondered about drilling the axles and how much that would save.
If a person went to aluminum pressure plate, flywheel, driveshaft, would you lose enough rotating inertia to have a significant negative impact on street drivability?
If a person went to aluminum pressure plate, flywheel, driveshaft, would you lose enough rotating inertia to have a significant negative impact on street drivability?
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
You would probably see a noticeable difference with the aluminum pressure plate/flywheel but most v8's make pretty good low end torque and if you have more sporty gears it would be offset some. I would try it.
67autocross
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
Really a lot of it started with getting rid of all under coating, dirt and seam sealer…the front has fiberglass fenders,all heater components including blower gone,interior has all aluminum panels and light scat buckets no carpet… trunk is a flat panel with no spare tire hole…aluminum gas tank and fuel lines… center line auto drag wheels…
67autocross
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel
I should also add that I removed the window mechanisms for the rear windows and drilled a bunch of holes in the doors and behind the panels...it currently is sitting as a roller but will be going back together this winter with a bunch of parts that came off my 68 valiant...1.14 torsion bars, borgeson box, Viking shocks ect...and the part everyone will hate... a 340 inch all aluminum 5.3 chevy that was for a truck project that went in a different direction...I could post 4 corner weights as the build goes if you are interested bjkadron
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Yeah don't love the engine choice but it sounds interesting haha. Would be interested in updates as you progress.
autoxcuda
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I would skip the carbon fiber stuff. Not cost effective
I think glass hood is bigger benefit than fenders. And glass fenders need headlight bezel and bucket fitting.
Not sure an electric parking brake is lighter. A-body parking brake is pretty simple. The cable has some weight.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Yeah, if I was buying then I would agree on cost for the CF. If I can make some parts of my own then it makes a lot more sense.
I agree the hood and trunk lid alone can drop a bunch of weight.
The electric parking brake I was looking at is the 2020+ explorer/interceptor/aviator rear calipers. They would replace the caliper completely and the handle/pedal, cables and all. Plus, I would be able to remove the inner parking brake drums on my existing setup. Just need a little switch to turn on so that's a couple oz of switch + wiring max. I'm sure I can save a few lbs while getting a braking upgrade and minimizing some clutter underneath.
DionR
Well-Known Member
Have you confirmed that the control for the parking brake motor isn't more sophisticated than a switch and power/ground?
Reason I ask is I am planning to build axle ends that use a 2015+ Mustang wheel bearing/hub and had hoped to use a later model Challenger parking brake setup along with the rotors and 4 piston calipers. Unfortunately, the Mustang hub is just too big to fit inside the parking brake shoes so that option hit the dust bin. So I started looking for a caliper that is only electric that I could use like the Viper or GT500 setup where a secondary caliper is used for the parking brake. I tripped over one explanation of EPB (Electronic Parking Brake - might be a Toyota term) and they talked like the ABS module and maybe even the PCM was involved in the process. I dropped the idea at that point but am wondering if maybe it is still viable.
So, I am curious if you are assuming somethings or if you have confidence in that.
bjkadron
Well-Known Member
Yeah, there is a kit for them on the 8.8 axle it is actually simple.: Explorer 8.8 Brake kit with Electric Parking Brake
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