HV Oil Pump/rear cap bolt clearance?

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70wayfarer

70wayfarer

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just been in the shed trial fitting the mains caps and arp studs. went to mount the Melling HV oil pump and it would not sit down properly. there was a big gap as the stud was too tall. even if I trimmed the stud the nut becomes the problem. even tried the old arp bolt and still no joy. took the washer from under the bolt and it was fine.
not to happy using one bolt. can the cap be milled and the bottom of the pump be ground down a tad to get around this.

cheers
 
Mad Dart said:
Most use a bolt with no washer there because of this issue.
Click to expand...


Even then, I still have to do a little "custom fitting" of the oil pan. The high volume pump will hit the side & bottom of the pan also. Test fit it without a gasket and get it to seat on the block surface. Keep trying, then banging with a ball peen hammer, then test fit, then bang a little more, etc. Repeat until oil pan will fit on the block flat without the gasket, then it will be fine with the gasket. #-o


With just a little bit of banging, you can get it to fit. :violent1:
 
That's funny. The HV pump on my 302 Ford motor fits perfect.
 
krazykuda said:
Even then, I still have to do a little "custom fitting" of the oil pan. The high volume pump will hit the side & bottom of the pan also. Test fit it without a gasket and get it to seat on the block surface. Keep trying, then banging with a ball peen hammer, then test fit, then bang a little more, etc. Repeat until oil pan will fit on the block flat without the gasket, then it will be fine with the gasket. #-o


With just a little bit of banging, you can get it to fit. :violent1:
Click to expand...

What kind of pan are you talking about?
 
Mad Dart said:
What kind of pan are you talking about?
Click to expand...

The stock pan.


the High volume pump is a little taller, and you have to bang a little clearance in the pan for it. Nothing difficult that a ball peen hammer and about 10 - 15 minutes can't fix. :violent1:
 
krazykuda said:
The stock pan.


the High volume pump is a little taller, and you have to bang a little clearance in the pan for it. Nothing difficult that a ball peen hammer and about 10 - 15 minutes can't fix. :violent1:
Click to expand...

Yes I knew the answer to the question..... WTF is a stock pan?? Lol

Most guys will crucify you on this board for running a High Volume Oil Pump with a stock pan. They say it will suck the pan empty....... I seriously doubt that it would. No documented cases to prove this theory.
 
This is what we did.

Cut the stud to the exact lenght. Round edges of nut. No washer.
 

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Mad Dart said:
Yes I knew the answer to the question..... WTF is a stock pan?? Lol

Most guys will crucify you on this board for running a High Volume Oil Pump with a stock pan. They say it will suck the pan empty....... I seriously doubt that it would. No documented cases to prove this theory.
Click to expand...


Well, I've been doing it for over 30 years now and not sucked one dry. That's running the high volume pump with the high pressure spring.

I'm not building race cars, just street performance and daily drivers. I've logged over 500,000 miles with hv pumps, hp springs, and stock pans. 318's with 2.02" intakes also. Not a problem.


Say what you will, it's worked for me. #-o
 
70wayfarer said:
just been in the shed trial fitting the mains caps and arp studs. went to mount the Melling HV oil pump and it would not sit down properly. there was a big gap as the stud was too tall. even if I trimmed the stud the nut becomes the problem. even tried the old arp bolt and still no joy. took the washer from under the bolt and it was fine.
not to happy using one bolt. can the cap be milled and the bottom of the pump be ground down a tad to get around this.

cheers[/QUOTE

I always machine [spot face] the area down about .200" then you can set it up properly with the washer and the proper nut, the stud will need to be shortened a little also.
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You can always massage the pump body itself along with using shorter Main stud & nut.
 

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Hello, I can say that I had the same Issue with using a HV Oil pump with the standard oil pan, meaing the pump would hit the back side of the pan not allowing it to sit flat. Inside the instruction received from the oil pan company there was a write up on how to shave the corner of the pump to allow it to sit flat when using a HV pump and a standard pan. If you need me to send you a copy of the instructions please let me know...
And to sucking the pan dry, I can say that I have a constant 60 PSI no matter how hard I drive the car, seems to me that i have never sucked the pan dry.

Thanks
 

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krazykuda said:
Well, I've been doing it for over 30 years now and not sucked one dry. That's running the high volume pump with the high pressure spring.

I'm not building race cars, just street performance and daily drivers. I've logged over 500,000 miles with hv pumps, hp springs, and stock pans. 318's with 2.02" intakes also. Not a problem.


Say what you will, it's worked for me. #-o
Click to expand...

Yes I know and I agree with you. There is a lot of mis information on the inter web. People open their mouths with no actual first hand knowledge on subjects. "Keyboard Commando's".......
"Ricky to told clicky, clicky told slicky and the story rolled on just like a wheel barrow!"

=RichardJ916; And to sucking the pan dry, I can say that I have a constant 60 PSI no matter how hard I drive the car, seems to me that i have never sucked the pan dry.
Click to expand...

I too have done it with no problems at all. First hand knowledge is better than a Rumor! :D
 
krazykuda said:
Well, I've been doing it for over 30 years now and not sucked one dry. That's running the high volume pump with the high pressure spring.

I'm not building race cars, just street performance and daily drivers. I've logged over 500,000 miles with hv pumps, hp springs, and stock pans. 318's with 2.02" intakes also. Not a problem.


Say what you will, it's worked for me. #-o
Click to expand...

I have and know guys w street strip cars that have spun rod bearings w/ high volume and a stock pan on there 340. In fact my buddies purple haze 70 duster had 12 diff 340s in it until oiling mods and bigger pans were used. Blowing them 340s up left and right back in the 80s. Big cams, HV oil pump, and high rpms. Rod bearings flying everywhere. Not sure if it all depends on rpms or not. Was spinning my fresh 340 up to 7500 under hard accel when my oil pressure dropped and #5 rod bearing spun. Im sure just a simple baffle, or limiting my rpms would have possibly prevented this. All I can think is oil was towards back of pan and possibly aerated quite a bit. I no longer chance it, I now do oiling mods and run a Kevko pan and have had no issues. One spun bearing was enough to prove to me the L/A oiling system is not good for high rpms.
 
swinger340 said:
I have and know guys w street strip cars that have spun rod bearings w/ high volume and a stock pan on there 340. In fact my buddies purple haze 70 duster had 12 diff 340s in it until oiling mods and bigger pans were used. Blowing them 340s up left and right back in the 80s. Big cams, HV oil pump, and high rpms. Rod bearings flying everywhere. Not sure if it all depends on rpms or not. Was spinning my fresh 340 up to 7500 under hard accel when my oil pressure dropped and #5 rod bearing spun. Im sure just a simple baffle, or limiting my rpms would have possibly prevented this. All I can think is oil was towards back of pan and possibly aerated quite a bit. I no longer chance it, I now do oiling mods and run a Kevko pan and have had no issues. One spun bearing was enough to prove to me the L/A oiling system is not good for high rpms.
Click to expand...


Yes. you are racing. I'm just doing street performance and daily driver cars. I don't see WOT enough to suck the pan dry.


It may be required for racing, but not street drivers.
 
krazykuda said:
Yes. you are racing. I'm just doing street performance and daily driver cars. I don't see WOT enough to suck the pan dry.


It may be required for racing, but not street drivers.
Click to expand...

Agreed, as long as the driver does not rev the snot out of it they would be fine. Street car and 6500 RPM and it would probably never bother. Took 7500 rpm wide open throttle spped shifts to spin my #5 rod bearing. NOT you average street driving. LOL!!! As far as clearance issues, I ran a bolt w a washer on my last few engines and clearanced the pump just like jbc426's photo. So far, so good
 
The first fix to sucking the pan dry is to not use a HV pump when you don't need one. It suffers from the "bigger is better complex"..
 
krazykuda said:
Even then, I still have to do a little "custom fitting" of the oil pan. The high volume pump will hit the side & bottom of the pan also. Test fit it without a gasket and get it to seat on the block surface. Keep trying, then banging with a ball peen hammer, then test fit, then bang a little more, etc. Repeat until oil pan will fit on the block flat without the gasket, then it will be fine with the gasket. #-o


With just a little bit of banging, you can get it to fit. :violent1:
Click to expand...
Me too, I had to form the rear of the 7 qt. Milodon wide bottom pan, a bunch to clear the Melling HV. Ball peen works fine.
With the baffles in the pan I thought the stock windage tray would keep the oil up and not let it drain, so out it went to EBAY. A diamond expanded steel tray would be the better than stock tray. But 6500 rpm peak is not a race motor.
 
I cut the stud down to clear the pump them machined the cap to use the washer and a 12 point nut for the main cap stud.
 
Mad Dart said:
Yes I know and I agree with you. There is a lot of mis information on the inter web. People open their mouths with no actual first hand knowledge on subjects. "Keyboard Commando's".......
"Ricky to told clicky, clicky told slicky and the story rolled on just like a wheel barrow!"



I too have done it with no problems at all. First hand knowledge is better than a Rumor! :D
Click to expand...

What's so bad about being a "Keyboard Commando?"
:wack::wack::wack::wack:

That's Captain Keyboard Commando to you! :cheers:

I don't see any problems with repeating the wisdom of some of the well known guru's here and quoting them periodically, not even quoting them necessarily...
Some of the wisdom put out here isn't too hard to figure out whether or not it's legit.
Some stuff is a passionate can of worms-my ego is bigger than your ego, my knowledge of torquing bolts is...whatever. :)

or who ever's quote on the roller camshaft's and high zinc oil-that was funny!
 
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