HV oil pump vs Stock oil pan

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Swinger 340 said:
You all are giving me a headache with all your numbers on oil pressures, from a simple question of "can I use a H/V oil pump in a stock oil pan without problems". He seems to have a mostly stock motor and not a full blown one. In 87' I had built two 340's, also mostly stock (forged 30 over bores with DC cams, one auto and the other manual cams). Both had installed H/V oil pumps, one 5 Qt.(dart) and the other 6 Qt(van) pans. Still running them and never an issue with either one. I run both hard at times and never ran the pans dry as some believe will happen. I did a test demo at a car show years ago that called to drain the oil and water from a 225 six and see how long it would take to blow up. 40 min. at 2,000 rpm's the cam broke. My belief is if you hear a tick or knock, you have a mechanical issue that needs to be addressed. I have seen dirty heads that would not allow oil to return to the pan, but that is another thread.
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The numbers demonstrate that there's little to no chance to empty the pan, regardless of what pump is used.

An engine in good condition will idle with more than 10psi regardless of which pump is used, a hv pump will idle with more pressure than a HP pump. A HV pump is a good idea for petty much any build.
 
The simple answer to the op's question is yes, you can run an HV pump in a stock pan and on a Mopar, it'll never, ever drain the pan dry. Also, since the subject has SINCE come up regarding the use of roller lifters that use more volume for direct oiling to the rollers, I think the HV pump is a good idea. I originally said to put the high pressure spring in a stock pump, but since the fancy roller lifters are in play, I would use the HV pump.....and probably still put the HP spring in it. Remember, they don't come with the HP spring automatically. I believe if I remember right, Mopar Performance was the only one to offer pumps that were both HV and HP. I have a big block one around here somewhere still new in the box. There are some really BIG name engine builders both on and off this site that use nothing but HV pumps in their builds and they have no issues whatsoever.
 
And now Engine Master has a great show about a 5.9 mopar...swapping pistons from side to side....running it on the dyno.....Great results....LOL
 
Dale Davies said:
Any power improvement?
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70aarcuda said:
When does the offer begin?

It is available beginning Friday, November 26th, 2021.



What does the offer include?

The offer is a subscription deal of $0.99 per month for 6 months. Renews at $4.99 per month.

  • Open to new subscribers or subscribers without an active subscription
  • Available through our website and Apple or Google Play app stores
  • Available to US customers
  • No Free Trial


Where can I get the offer?

www.motortrend.com/cyberweek
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Well, being a Canuk, I guess the deal does not apply.
Uncle Tony claims a few HP extra so just wondered if the Engine Masters crew confirm.
 
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Dale Davies said:
Well, eing a Canuk, I guess the deal does not apply.
Uncle Tony claims a few HP extra so just wondered if the Engine Masters crew confirm.
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The conclusion was there was no appreciable power difference.
 
Dale Davies said:
I personally can not see more than a HP or two difference, and that is well within testing tollerances
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Well, you know, it's been repeated for decades that it was good for a friction reduction and a few extra HP. Who was to argue until some dyno proof? Used to be few had access to a dyno. Now, there are some who have them in their back yard shops. I know somebody who has one. lol
 
RustyRatRod said:
Well, you know, it's been repeated for decades that it was good for a friction reduction and a few extra HP. Who was to argue until some dyno proof? Used to be few had access to a dyno. Now, there are some who have them in their back yard shops. I know somebody who has one. lol
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For the NASCAR and F1 crews the couple of HP might be an advantage, but street engines we would never notice the difference. Possibly a bit of noise. Those teams spend fortunes looking for any advantage for that winning edge. If there is anything there, they will know. I expect their pistons have 0 offset.
 
Dale Davies said:
For the NASCAR and F1 crews the couple of HP might be an advantage, but street engines we would never notice the difference. Possibly a bit of noise. Those teams spend fortunes looking for any advantage for that winning edge. If there is anything there, they will know. I expect their pistons have 0 offset.
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I think the only pistons now with offset are the dead stock cast pistons. The cheapest ones money can buy. I believe once you jump up to hypers they are centered and of course forged. I think you'd be hard pressed to hear the difference between one with an offset pin and one with a centered pin. That's really the only reason they were ever offset was to reduce noise. I think with all the other noises an engine makes it'd be tough to hear. Now floating pins with forged pistons with plenty of clearance is another story.
 
Phreakish,
Post #121. You should tell Chrys that they didn't need to increase the diam of the pick up tube in the 426 Hemi with the larger pump pulling harder on the oil.
 
Agree with post #125. Just crack open the kitchen tap to get some flow. Then open it further. Volume discharged increases, even though the orifice size hasn't changed.
 
Bewy said:
Phreakish,
Post #121. You should tell Chrys that they didn't need to increase the diam of the pick up tube in the 426 Hemi with the larger pump pulling harder on the oil.
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Depends what the pump flows, dunnit?

At the flow rates for the engine OP asked about, which isn't a hemi - nice shift of the goalposts, the velocity through a stock pickup is fine at typical speeds for a hot street motor.

I haven't looked up flow rates for a hemi, but I bet the bigger pickup is sized to the necessary flow, or for dozens of other reasons including wildly different applications and budgetary concerns for the different engine families. We know hemis cost substantially more to produce, and they went into luxo-barges and race cars. LA motors went into everything and so the engineering constraints are vastly different. Worlds apart, even.
 
Phreakish said:
The numbers demonstrate that there's little to no chance to empty the pan, regardless of what pump is used.

An engine in good condition will idle with more than 10psi regardless of which pump is used, a hv pump will idle with more pressure than a HP pump. A HV pump is a good idea for petty much any build.
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Well a new Melling HV pump is now on my bench a will soon be installed with the stock oil pan.
Thanks for all who responded, and oh, some of you got a little nuts.
Jim K
 
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512Stroker said:
Well a new Melling HV pump is now on my bench a will soon be installed with the stock oil pan.
Thanks for all who responded, and oh, some of you got a little nuts.
Jim K
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I speak for myself when I say I have big nuts.
 
Bewy said:
Agree with post #125. Just crack open the kitchen tap to get some flow. Then open it further. Volume discharged increases, even though the orifice size hasn't changed.
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The valve in the faucet is an adjustable orifice, when you open it up the orifice increases in size, thus increasing flow.

BTW, I agree with post #125 too.
 
The section from the faucet to the tip that the water flows from doesn't change diameter....which is what I was alluding too. It is no different to a main jet in a carburetor. When the difference in pressure across the jet is changed, the volume of liquid exiting the jet changes, even though the jet size has not changed.
 
RustyRatRod said:
If you want to add more pressure, the HV pump is not the way to do it. Get the MP high pressure spring and put it in the pump you have. But 15 PSI at 800 RPM hot is plenty. If you don't think it is, unscrew the filter while it's running.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
agree , I have about 18-19 on hot running 505'' wedge at 1100 rpm...goes up with rpm tho...
 
Good evening everyone, the SPRING P3690944 Can we put it in the MELLING M72-HV High Volume Pump as well as the M-72 Low Volume Pump THANK YOU!

SPRING MELLING.jpg
 
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