I need some help guys

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mopar4x4stroker

mopar4x4stroker

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My 318 has been running like a dog (more than norm) the last couple weeks, so I decided to pull the plugs and have a look see. To my surprise I find that the entire passenger side bank has ash deposit on the grnd straps (typical for the #6 cyl). 1,3,5,7 look perfect. I realize ash is usually the result of bad gas or bunt oil, but it doesn't burn or blow oil and gas is fresh. Nor do I see or smell oil on start up.

On a side note, I've been chasing an off idle stumble/lean cough and hard "warm" starts for the last 3 years to no avail. Runs "ok" when cold (elec choke), throttle is much more responsive on quick snap. I've tried timing, idle mix, jets(+4 size), pump shot cam and nozzles, float level, vac leak test, not all at once of course. I even tried a new carb, holley 570 to a 670. It has always had a hard time starting anywhere from 120-160deg after cool down. I come home for lunch brake and 40min later, I have to hold it 1/8 throtle or it will crank and crank. Anymore than 1/8-1/4 throttle it'll load up real bad and barley come to life. Runs fine once it clears out (never fouls plugs either) Which would tell me choke/timing (which I've tried). I did a comp test a year ago and all where within 5% of 125psi.

Could it be an internal vac leak?

I'm gonna do a comp test ad vac reading this weekend. I'll post the results. Just looking for some ideas form the pro's cuz I'm done chasing my tail :wack:
 
Have you tried a different distributor? Maybe you could have a bad pick-up lead in it or an out of round shaft. I had a Chevy that did the same thing until I changed it. They are cheap enough from Advance.
 
The hard start after warm is definately the carb and the off idle stumble probably is too.
There are a couple of different ways the fuel can get away when the engine is shut off.
Details like year model, what carb, etc.. could help
 
I'm not saying my car runs like a dog but according to the manual, a major tune up requires a parvo shot.
 
RedFish said:
The hard start after warm is definately the carb and the off idle stumble probably is too.
There are a couple of different ways the fuel can get away when the engine is shut off.
Details like year model, what carb, etc.. could help
Click to expand...

My sig says it all, but its an 86 W150 4x4 with an 82 318. Carb is a brand new Holley 670 street avenger 4150 series (iirc) that replaced the exact same 570 that was 10yrs old for the same reasons. The 670 is for my 408, too big for a stock 318. She starts no problem cold, Sometimes you dont even have to pump it, but 9 out of 10 I give it a 3/4 pump to set the choke and prime it anyway. Unless it sits outside all night in 40 bellow temps then I have to give it 2-3 pumps.

The stumble and hard starts aren't to concerning atm, my biggest concern is the ash deposit on the entire passenger side bank but not the driver. I doubt its rings/valves. Could it be an intake leak, like internally? I've sprayed carb cleaner around the intake,carb and got no reaction. Which makes me think its internal and is now bad enough to suck oil. Like I said it not unusual for #6 to ash over. My dad said its done that ever since he rebuilt it in 2001. I got it 2005...
 
mopar4x4stroker said:
My 318 has been running like a dog (more than norm) the last couple weeks, so I decided to pull the plugs and have a look see. To my surprise I find that the entire passenger side bank has ash deposit on the grnd straps (typical for the #6 cyl). 1,3,5,7 look perfect. I realize ash is usually the result of bad gas or bunt oil, but it doesn't burn or blow oil and gas is fresh. Nor do I see or smell oil on start up.

On a side note, I've been chasing an off idle stumble/lean cough and hard "warm" starts for the last 3 years to no avail. Runs "ok" when cold (elec choke), throttle is much more responsive on quick snap. I've tried timing, idle mix, jets(+4 size), pump shot cam and nozzles, float level, vac leak test, not all at once of course. I even tried a new carb, holley 570 to a 670. It has always had a hard time starting anywhere from 120-160deg after cool down. I come home for lunch brake and 40min later, I have to hold it 1/8 throtle or it will crank and crank. Anymore than 1/8-1/4 throttle it'll load up real bad and barley come to life. Runs fine once it clears out (never fouls plugs either) Which would tell me choke/timing (which I've tried). I did a comp test a year ago and all where within 5% of 125psi.

Could it be an internal vac leak?

I'm gonna do a comp test ad vac reading this weekend. I'll post the results. Just looking for some ideas form the pro's cuz I'm done chasing my tail :wack:
Click to expand...

I have had the same problem with hot starts or after running the car then go back out to start the car and it just cranks and cranks and yes giving just a little gas not to much to finally get it started.
Well after many threads on FABO I replaced the distributor and reset the timing at about 15 BTC and it starts in any condition , Hot/cold just ran sat for 40 minutes. it always starts now. I'm no mechanic but it solved my starting problems.
dodgedartCassiniranch006.jpg
 
I cant wait for the 408, then I'll know what I have. Well at least the block,bores,heads,valves,intake will be square true and new so I can rule out internal leaks.

Another thing that surprised me was how a spark plugs can seal compression but not oil. I found this out when I seen the threads on the #7 plug were covered in oil from my valve cover leaking. I never seen that b4. How can that even happen? It can seal compression but not oil??? I just laughed, at least the plug comes out easier though lol. That was the only plug like that though. Well hope you all have a marry Xmas :D. I appreciate the help nonetheless.
 
169dart4y said:
I have had the same problem with hot starts or after running the car then go back out to start the car and it just cranks and cranks and yes giving just a little gas not to much to finally get it started.
Well after many threads on FABO I replaced the distributor and reset the timing at about 15 BTC and it starts in any condition , Hot/cold just ran sat for 40 minutes. it always starts now. I'm no mechanic but it solved my starting problems.
Click to expand...

Yeah thats what I thought, either timing to far advanced or chock comming on to soon, or when not needed. I need to get some timing tap again. You proved my theroy. I'm no mechaneck either, although I like to think I am lol. This is the only V8 I have experiace w/. I dont care to much for elec chokes either. If I had a mech I could have ruled the choke out right away. Still odd to me that the whole bank is ashed? Thanks for the tip 169dart4y :thumbup:
 
Well I did a comp test and all 8 are at 150. The gauge must be off. Seems too high for stock heads/pistons w/ mild cam, but they're all within. Timing was at 12deg, I put it at 15. It helped a lil but nothing significant. Still has light throttle hesitation in 3rd. Once it gets past 1,400 though its fine. So that tells me its jetting, pump shot or a vac leak. Anyone have suggestion to what size jets, color and position of cam, and nozzle size for a 318 4x4 to put me in the ballpark?
 
I think you are looking in the wrong place. If 2 different carbs are doing the same thing and one is brand new, the carb is probabally not the issue.
 
gliderider06 said:
I think you are looking in the wrong place. If 2 different carbs are doing the same thing and one is brand new, the carb is probabally not the issue.
Click to expand...

Yea I came to that conclusion after the swap. I just had the carb sitting there so I figured I'd try it. I think its my intake leaking internally though.
 
I'm trying to pay more attetion, I've noticed this year on a cold motor it loads up a for the first minute, but the throttle response is excellent during that time. It loads up to the point that it sounds like its got a heavy cam. Then once it smooths out it runs like crap and throttle response is garbage. Any ideas???

How can you test for internal vacuum leaks? I dont want to pull the intake cuz it'll most likely need to be plained in order to seal again. If its not a leaking it would for sure leak if I took it off. Anyone???
 
I don't know if you have a exhaust cross over on your intake manifold,but I have had a couple 318's that were running bad and the exhaust cross over was completely clogged with carbon,cleaned them out and they ran good.
 
It's got a Xover but if it was clogged wouldnt it affect it when its cold too? I cant see how a blocked xover would effect performance at all, just prolong warm up time. If anything it would help performance(once its hot). It runs great the first 2min when the chokes on. Its loaded up during those first 2min but throttle response is instantaneous. I can get on it (driving) and I get know hesitation whatsoever. Its once it warms up that I have my problem.
 
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