idler arm, pitman arm questions

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streetdak

streetdak

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so, I as well as others have had a HUGE problem with headers hitting the idler arm. So here's my question, I have a 73 Dart 318 Swinger with power steering and I also have a 74 Dart Sport 225 with manual steering. I was under the 73 today removing a freeze plug since there is no exhaust in the way and noticed that the idler arm seems to be positioned much higher than the pitman arm (wheels are staight) and it got me to thinking maybe its the wrong idler arm.

Long story short i jacked up the 74 and compared the two idler arms and they are exactly the same, yet the pitman arms are different.

I was under the impression that manual steering and power steering have both different idler and pitman arms. One set for power and one set for manual.

Research on Oreillys and Auto zone site only show a power steering pitman arm and only one option for and idler. Does anyone know if the manual and power steering idler arms are different on the 73 and up cars?
 
If it's hitting the idler arm your motor mount is weak. My did the same thing.

There is a different shaft size on the pitman arms but they end up in the same place.
 
Also people are begining to notice that different brands of aftermarket idlers are putting the centerlink in different places. The aftermarket idlers are not all the same geometry. ;(
 
67gtx said:
If it's hitting the idler arm your motor mount is weak. My did the same thing.

There is a different shaft size on the pitman arms but they end up in the same place.
Click to expand...

LOL, no got new mounts, the issue is major there. So much that the header can't even be clearanced. The tubes would have be cut and moved. I'm beginning to think AutoXcuda may possibly be on to something.

From what I read both the idler and pitman arm should have the same trajectory, and if so, I think I found my problem. Anyone know??

I have a pic, let me see if i can find it
 
The old DC chassis manual shows how to correct bump steer by shimming the steering box and "adjusting" the idler arm mount holes. Adjusting means sloting and rewelding the holes. So I am guessing that the factory tolerances on the Kmember manufacturing were not very precise. So between engine mount variances and kmember and arm differences, there is a difference in where things end up.
 
streetdak said:
LOL, no got new mounts, the issue is major there. So much that the header can't even be clearanced. The tubes would have be cut and moved. I'm beginning to think AutoXcuda may possibly be on to something.

From what I read both the idler and pitman arm should have the same trajectory, and if so, I think I found my problem. Anyone know??

I have a pic, let me see if i can find it
Click to expand...

Is your centerlink pretty close to being level? It should be.

Once, I grabbed my 71 E-body idler and put it in my A-body because it "looked" close. The car aligned and it got within spec. And I had stock exhaust manifolds so everything clearanced. BUT the centerlink was not level. The next alignment guy spotted it right away (sharp guy).
 
**Update** Long Overdue, but in case anyone runs into this same problem, my original K-Member was way out of wack because of a previous wreck. New K-Member in now, headers fit perfectly.
 
Thanks for the update and happy you got 'er. Many of these questions disappear into the "I wonder" stack
 
On the 1973 - 1976 "A" Body -- there is only 1 Idler Arm for both Manual and Power steering -- such that by all "books" -- there is only 1 Idler Arm.
(As indicated by some people in their answers) Certain brands - may - be slightly different..... I keep this Idler Arm in stock in both MOOG and a Private label (1/2 the price)....

The PITMAN ARMS are -- Different -- for Manual and Power Steering --
both by Moog and TRW 's listings -- they seem to agree....
I keep the MOOG PITMAN ARM in stock for the Power Steering and was
able to order 1 in for a guy with Manual steering about a year ago....

PM me if you need them -- craig --.... New York.
 
The problems with "year" is that so many of us have swapped stuff around. For example, I have a 67, with a 73/4 K member, late disk brakes, BUT an earlier (small spline) manual steering box, so I'm using 68-72? idler/ pitman / center link.

I'm thinking about putting in a (late) power steering box, so this means the later idler/ pitman/ center link will have to be used, which I also have.

I think you can see how easily this can get into a quagmire.
 
well I learned the hard way to inspect the LCA's for signs of a previous wreck! I should have taken a picture of the old one and new one together to show how bad the K-Frame was mangled, but yay! no more header probs!
 
On the '73 models, there is no distinction between the idler arms used on PS and manual steer cars. I don't have the '74 and later parts manuals, so I can't help there.
 
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