If it ain't one thing....

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ProjectBazza

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It's a "mother______". Or something like that.

Finishing-up the punch list on Bazza's ride today so we can take it back to him next weekend, and everything was going great.

But then I tried to start it one time too many I guess, and I heard, "Bzzzzzzzz......", and then nothiong. No starter action. Lights work, and I can start the car by jumping out the solenoid...

Anywhoooo, the fusible link on the starter relay looked really questionable, so I got that fixed (O'Reilly's), and I got a neutral safety switch pigtail ordered-up (RockAuto), and she should be good to go again.

Until next time, that is.

(The guy at the alignment shop is gonna love the jumped-out neutral safety switch on Tuesday.)
 
That buzz is usually stuff like dead battery, bad battery connections or cables.
 
HOW DOES the "buzz" work?

When you have a problem, and turn the key to start, that causes the starter relay to be energized and pull in, and that sends power to the starter solenoid, which draws a lot more power. If there is enough power to pull in the starter solenoid, then the STARTER starts to try and pull a lot of power

So depending on how bad the problem is, at some point "the problem" causes the voltage to fall very low, and low enough that the start relay cannot stay engaged. So the start relay opens, the starter solenoid drops out, and because there is now no load on "the problem" the voltage at the key goes back up and you start all over again.
 
HOW DOES the "buzz" work?
Answer: "Beats the hell outta me!" (LOL)

But seriously, every system I've touched on this car has needed work, and every time I think I've got something fixed, something else goes to....crap. I realize this sounds negative, or that it seems I've lost my enthusiasm for this project, but this car....She's a good "20 footer", you know? (I have a good friend who taught me a saying about some people being "all hat and no cattle", and if this car was a person....).

Anyway, she was starting just fine, and then...."bzzzzz"....and then.....nothing. Dead. (And I can't tell you where the "bzzz" came from, as my head was inside the car, and since all of the carpet and sound deadener was removed the other day (see further down), the sound just echo'd, if you will, from "somewhere up front".)

Having previously torn-out, repaired, and then replaced the engine, I'm well aware of the condition of the wiring at the starter and solenoid. And it's Not Good. But since the starter was working (initially, or until today), I let it all pass, as I had (have!) plenty of other things to keep me busy.

But then today: In a nutshell, all of the terminal ends on the solenoid were either loose or severely corroded, the 3/8 thread (?) post for the battery wire was loose (someone was using the lock nut for the cable hold-down), the fusible link going up to the dash was burned, brittle, and had only 4 wire strands holding it together, the ground for the starter solenoid wasn''t "making" (infinite resistance), and the wiring diagram I have is a complete POS (a copy of a copy, at best).

So I re-terminated everything, found another nut for the solenoid, replaced the fusible link (as well as a 20A circuit breaker someone added for "something" at some time in the past), and messed around with (wiggled) the neutral safety plug/pigtail, as I knew it was brittle as well (I changed the tranny filter when the engine was out and found this). Sure enough, the pigtail wouldn't stay on the switch any longer, so I threw-in the towel, ordered-up another one, and left the solenoid "ground jumper" in-place.

Yesterday I took-out the back seat and removed "The Mother of All Mouse Nests", but today I think I may have found "The Mother of All Wiring Nests" under the hood and dash of this thing....while I was tracing circuits....sans wiring diagram....so in my opinion, it's a damn miracle that it even runs!

When I first started this project I was giving serious consideration into entering it into the Power Cruise for next year, as I know Bazza (the owner) would get a thrill out of it, not to mention the fact that not many people have seen what is essentially a RH drive Dodge Dart from Oz.

But now? I dunno. This thing keeps pushing my buttons, and I really don't know that it's all that reliable.
 
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There is no fusable link in the starter cir.

How about some photos of what you replaced?
Well, there kinda is. All the power going through the firewall goes through a fusable link first. That would include the solenoid wire supplying power to the starter relay.
 
ok its a bosch starter made to a chrysler-ish specification.

uses a starter relay like US cars on the inner wing where they corrode in the fumes from the battery. you have one style for manual and one for auto cars only difference is the no. of connections to it Rock auto has em.
if they are old they get resistant and reduce the power to the starter

the stater is a Bosch unit. the solenoid is basically like any other. it flips the pinion out and controls power to the motor unit

if the voltage is low it doesn't engage properly and what you hear is the contacts in the solenoid cooking...... thats the Buzz

this is more likley to be
flatish battery
or
if the car has bolt on cable ends for the battery connections and a load of geen verdigris in that junction strip off clean in coke "only the real thing". put back

clean all connections battery clamp, battery clamp onto wire power to starter motor power onto stud at starter relay.

If the motor is dead a mini starter can be used but i'll need to know pinion size and tooth count before i can advise on how hard that swap will be.


my usual suggestion here is a rockauto rebuilt magnum starter with the 35 mm 10T pinion swapped for a 25 mm 9 tooth. and thats when the fun starts. no standard denso ever came out with a 25 mm 9T pinion, so its a custom job and supplies are picemeal and awkward

slant6dan has a solution
Mini Starters on a Slant Six

i emailed the suggested supplier and as per usual, they studiously ignored me.
there are alternatives, 1 is crap the other depends on the owner of the company seeing what he has in his prototype box or, usuing one that is innapropriate with an 8 mm spacer plate and the nose of the starter cut off

but as i say we won't know until you pull it and have a look...

if the car has a borg warner 35 id suggest it would have a 9 tooth 25 or 10 tooth 27mm pinion
if the car has a 904 or 727 it will probably be 35 mm ten tooth like a US mopar
if the car has been messed with well any combo of aussie and US parts makes for a puzzle
if its manual the jury is out dpends if its always been manual.

if you were in the UK i have a box full of valiant starters from the guys who just stuck in a big block and 727 :)


electrical maladys in aussie cars seem to depend on if they lived by the sea or in semi tropical region. you will find the greenest of green all over the connectors,and the fuse box can be quite fossilised if they lived by the sea.

move them to a dry climate and the proplems pop up whenever it gets humid or rains. the green crap swells and causes bad connections.

your experience may differ but i lived this after my car was transported for 3 months in a container to the UK 3 months at sea in a sweating damp container did the electrics no good.

hours of fun with a small brush in a rotray tool contact cleaner and a small pair of pliers

if you had a wire diagram for a 1967 dodge dart you wouldn't be far off what you have provided you account for the fact that left is right and right is of course left
they didn't really do anything new.... its just a low spec dart with spade connectors where the US would have bullet connectors.

under the hood if you avoid lights and wiper/washers you are basically looking at a loom that covers tacho coil+ ballast temp sender and oil light.

on the left you have the usual rats nest by the battery which is the same as US cars
regulator starter relay alternator feed and big red wire as battery +

Dave
 
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