I'm putting 2.02" valves in 360 heads ...

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360DartGT66

360DartGT66

Not a 360 anymore
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... and I need some guidance. I DON'T need arguments against doing it.

I found cheap seat cutting tools from India on eBay and will do the work myself (and post video - whether I fail or not ...). I got a custom kit with six cutter heads so I can do a 3-angle job on all valves, 30, 45 and 60 degrees.

My plan is to put a single plane intake and a big cam in it, aiming for high rpms on the strip. I already have stock heads and a dual plane intake for ordinary driving. This setup will be for fun only.

I'm shopping for guides, valves and seals and I find it so confusing.

The intake guides that are in the heads are stock, the machinist decided they didn't need to be replaced so I suppose they're close enough to the stock ID. The machine shop drilled out and reamed all eight exhaust guides, though. I will be pressing in new guides myself.

I have brand new exhaust valves (came with the heads) but I need to buy intake valves.

I will machine the valve spring seat for proper stem seals (and to work with the springs I decide on eventually).

Questions:
- What valve stem clearance should I have on intake and exhaust?
- Should I ream up the stock guides and get oversize intake stems nevertheless?
- Will ENGINETECH S2970 Viton rubber valve stem seal kit hold up on the exhaust valves, too?
- One, two or four groove keepers?
- Stainless? Why/why not?
- Other considerations when I choose valves?

Thanks in advance!
 
I'll be watching this thread because I am planning to do the same, I know aluminum heads is the way to go but it would just be a fun project to do
 
I'm not a machinist, but:

* I'd suggest knurling the intake guides as well to insure proper, consistent clearances and better lubrication.
* Exhaust clearance is normally more than intake, but I don't know the numbers.
* Single groove keepers are easier to find and can be made from better materials - better for performance applications. (Machined locks are better than stamped.) Valve choice determines lock grooves.
* Stainless valves because they are better, inexpensive enough and tend to have a "nail-head" design, which is better for flow on the intake side over the OEM "tulip" style.
* Be careful with "mixing" intake & exhaust valve brands. Best to stay consistent with brands for quality, lock style & valve length.

Be careful with the "bigger" plans related to rpm's, cam, intake & porting. Bigger isn't always better. Some dual plane intakes perform better than some single planes.
 
Hate to say it being (as old as I am) but.....aluminum heads are the way to go. I've been avoiding aluminum heads for many years (they used to be crap) but now that they have the alloys figured out you can't beat the combination of lower weight and horsepower. I know that you already have the heads you want to use (and so do I for my Mopar) but my opinion has changed. When I built (7 years ago) my son's 46 Chevy (350 motor) the machinist convinced me to go with the newer aluminum heads. They worked out really nice. My son has been driving (and enjoying) the car for 8 years now. He wants a big block now, I've purchased a good used big block and plan to go with aluminum heads. Good luck with your build!!

treblig
 
360DartGT66 said:
... and I need some guidance. I DON'T need arguments against doing it.

I found cheap seat cutting tools from India on eBay and will do the work myself (and post video - whether I fail or not ...). I got a custom kit with six cutter heads so I can do a 3-angle job on all valves, 30, 45 and 60 degrees.

My plan is to put a single plane intake and a big cam in it, aiming for high rpms on the strip. I already have stock heads and a dual plane intake for ordinary driving. This setup will be for fun only.

I'm shopping for guides, valves and seals and I find it so confusing.

The intake guides that are in the heads are stock, the machinist decided they didn't need to be replaced so I suppose they're close enough to the stock ID. The machine shop drilled out and reamed all eight exhaust guides, though. I will be pressing in new guides myself.

I have brand new exhaust valves (came with the heads) but I need to buy intake valves.

I will machine the valve spring seat for proper stem seals (and to work with the springs I decide on eventually).

Questions:
- What valve stem clearance should I have on intake and exhaust?
- Should I ream up the stock guides and get oversize intake stems nevertheless?
- Will ENGINETECH S2970 Viton rubber valve stem seal kit hold up on the exhaust valves, too?
- One, two or four groove keepers?
- Stainless? Why/why not?
- Other considerations when I choose valves?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...


Clearance depends on valve stem diameter and application
You should be using bronze guides if you are running over .500 lift.
Yes
One groove valves and locks
Stainless. All valves I know of are some form of stainless. Some are better than others.
Stem diameter, under head radius, overall length.

Contact B3racingengines.com and read carefully his tech articles and make sure you correct your geometry.
 
Locomotion said:
I'm not a machinist, but:

* I'd suggest knurling the intake guides as well to insure proper, consistent clearances and better lubrication.
* Exhaust clearance is normally more than intake, but I don't know the numbers.
* Single groove keepers are easier to find and can be made from better materials - better for performance applications. (Machined locks are better than stamped.) Valve choice determines lock grooves.
* Stainless valves because they are better, inexpensive enough and tend to have a "nail-head" design, which is better for flow on the intake side over the OEM "tulip" style.
* Be careful with "mixing" intake & exhaust valve brands. Best to stay consistent with brands for quality, lock style & valve length.

Be careful with the "bigger" plans related to rpm's, cam, intake & porting. Bigger isn't always better. Some dual plane intakes perform better than some single planes.
Click to expand...
I can't remember where it was I saw it but I've read or seen that knurling is negative. I don't know how to do it anyway so I don't think I'll be doing that. :)

I'll probably stick with the exhaust valves that came with the heads.
 
Treblig said:
Hate to say it being (as old as I am) but.....aluminum heads are the way to go. I've been avoiding aluminum heads for many years (they used to be crap) but now that they have the alloys figured out you can't beat the combination of lower weight and horsepower. I know that you already have the heads you want to use (and so do I for my Mopar) but my opinion has changed. When I built (7 years ago) my son's 46 Chevy (350 motor) the machinist convinced me to go with the newer aluminum heads. They worked out really nice. My son has been driving (and enjoying) the car for 8 years now. He wants a big block now, I've purchased a good used big block and plan to go with aluminum heads. Good luck with your build!!

treblig
Click to expand...
I'm new to all of this but it's the coarse ruggedness that attracts me. Plus I want to do this myself. It's the project that's the fun part. :)
 
yellow rose said:
Clearance depends on valve stem diameter and application
You should be using bronze guides if you are running over .500 lift.
Yes
One groove valves and locks
Stainless. All valves I know of are some form of stainless. Some are better than others.
Stem diameter, under head radius, overall length.

Contact B3racingengines.com and read carefully his tech articles and make sure you correct your geometry.
Click to expand...
Thanks!

I suppose the improved lubrication of the bronze guide is needed for the higher velocity? Then I'd have to drill out the intake guides too. I could do that. It wasn't possible to do the exhaust guides on my own. They were worn so bad that I wouldn't have been able to use them as pilots for the drill.

I think I've seen and read that article on rocker geometry. I'll try my best to get it right!
 
Bla bla bla etc and so forth, use 11/32 valves, K line it, knurl it/hone it.
When you blend it, come off the throat cut about a seat width.
 
Turns out the new exh. valves I got with the heads were Enginetech V1721:

Stem Diameter 0.3715
Head Diameter 1.602
Keeper Grooves 4
Notes Chrome Stem
Stem Diameter 3/8
Valve Length 5.000

This is a little annoying. I'd rather go with 10* keepers and retainers and as far as I can tell, they don't come in a 4-groove variant.

Also, I only got 15 retainers and zero keepers with the heads ...

I do have a lead on a set of Comp Cams springs 995-16 for a decent price here in Sweden.
 
360DartGT66 said:
Turns out the new exh. valves I got with the heads were Enginetech V1721:

Stem Diameter 0.3715
Head Diameter 1.602
Keeper Grooves 4
Notes Chrome Stem
Stem Diameter 3/8
Valve Length 5.000

This is a little annoying. I'd rather go with 10* keepers and retainers and as far as I can tell, they don't come in a 4-groove variant.

Also, I only got 15 retainers and zero keepers with the heads ...

I do have a lead on a set of Comp Cams springs 995-16 for a decent price here in Sweden.
Click to expand...



I have gotten 4 grove 10degree locks and retainers from comp cams but that was in 97 they should still make them .
 
3/8 10 degree single square groove, Comp Cams 612-8 or 612-16.
3/8 10 degree 8 or 16 Chrysler 2-groove Comp Cams 625-8 or 625-16.
3/8 10 degree 8-ea 2-groove and 8-ea 4-groove Comp Cams 627-16.
The 995 spring will use a Comp Cams 740-16 10 degree retainer and you must machine the spring seat in the head to accommodate the dual spring. To do this you could use Comp Cams spring seat cutter 4719 and Comp Cams 3/8 arbor for seat/valve guide cutters, 4734. Then you would need to use valve guide cutter 4726 and 3/8 valve seals 515-16. Make sure you cut the valve guide height down enough so that the retainers do not hit the seal/guide at full lift.

If you try to drill out the guides for bronze liners, you will have one hell of a mess that only a machinist can repair. It takes special tools to do it correctly.

I admire your courage but I fear this project will.............ah.........bite y...........ah............be a disappo..............ah.........have a HUGH learning curve.
 
Last edited:
360DartGT66 said:
... and I need some guidance. I DON'T need arguments against doing it.

I found cheap seat cutting tools from India on eBay and will do the work myself (and post video - whether I fail or not ...). I got a custom kit with six cutter heads so I can do a 3-angle job on all valves, 30, 45 and 60 degrees.

My plan is to put a single plane intake and a big cam in it, aiming for high rpms on the strip. I already have stock heads and a dual plane intake for ordinary driving. This setup will be for fun only.

I'm shopping for guides, valves and seals and I find it so confusing.

The intake guides that are in the heads are stock, the machinist decided they didn't need to be replaced so I suppose they're close enough to the stock ID. The machine shop drilled out and reamed all eight exhaust guides, though. I will be pressing in new guides myself.

I have brand new exhaust valves (came with the heads) but I need to buy intake valves.

I will machine the valve spring seat for proper stem seals (and to work with the springs I decide on eventually).

Questions:
- What valve stem clearance should I have on intake and exhaust?
- Should I ream up the stock guides and get oversize intake stems nevertheless?
- Will ENGINETECH S2970 Viton rubber valve stem seal kit hold up on the exhaust valves, too?
- One, two or four groove keepers?
- Stainless? Why/why not?
- Other considerations when I choose valves?

Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
post a link to your seat cutting tool from ebay!!!
 
IQ52 said:
3/8 10 degree single square groove, Comp Cams 612-8 or 612-16.
3/8 10 degree 8 or 16 Chrysler 2-groove Comp Cams 625-8 or 625-16.
3/8 10 degree 8-ea 2-groove and 8-ea 4-groove Comp Cams 627-16.
The 995 spring will use a Comp Cams 740-16 10 degree retainer and you must machine the spring seat in the head to accommodate the dual spring. To do this you could use Comp Cams spring seat cutter 4719 and Comp Cams 3/8 arbor for seat/valve guide cutters, 4734. Then you would need to use valve guide cutter 4726 and 3/8 valve seals 515-16. Make sure you cut the valve guide height down enough so that the retainers do not hit the seal/guide at full lift.

If you try to drill out the guides for bronze liners, you will have one hell of a mess that only a machinist can repair. It takes special tools to do it correctly.

I admire your courage but I fear this project will.............ah.........bite y...........ah............be a disappo..............ah.........have a HUGH learning curve.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I hear you. I don't see machining the spring seats and valve guide OD as much of a problem as long as the pilot hole is ok. Btw, thanks for the article numbers! :thumbsup:

You're most likely right about drilling for guides on my own but I figure that since the guides that are in there are straight and nice, a piloted drill bit and a drill press should do the job as long as I can prop up the heads at the right angle. But failure is always an option! I'm not afraid of making an *** out of myself. :drama:
 
360DartGT66 said:
Yeah, I hear you. I don't see machining the spring seats and valve guide OD as much of a problem as long as the pilot hole is ok. Btw, thanks for the article numbers! :thumbsup:

You're most likely right about drilling for guides on my own but I figure that since the guides that are in there are straight and nice, a piloted drill bit and a drill press should do the job as long as I can prop up the heads at the right angle. But failure is always an option! I'm not afraid of making an *** out of myself. :drama:
Click to expand...
The problem is You won't be able to tell how bad it is until You try to seat the valve, once You've hit it with the cutter, if the valve angle is off, the seat may be screwed
to the point that You'll have to live with it sunk(NOT performance enhancing) or as IQ52 stated..fixed by a machine shop and a seat insert(s) installed. If the drill press
is a sturdy one and tight, You may be successful if setup is done well & carefully. Good luck..............
Not to mention where the valve tip may end up in relation to the rocker arm :eek::eek:................
 
Here's a set of mid 70's 360 heads with 2.02's in them:

DSC03552 B.JPG


DSC03554 B.JPG


DSC03557 B.JPG
 
A word of caution..........when cutting the valve guides for your new stem seals, try not to make the spring seat deeper, from the Mp Engine manual they only recommend cutting seats .050 deeper than factory stock, if you get carried away and go too deep, you will hit water and your heads will be junk.
 
360DartGT66 said:
I can't remember where it was I saw it but I've read or seen that knurling is negative. I don't know how to do it anyway so I don't think I'll be doing that. :)
Click to expand...
Knurling is a temporary fix for guides. It can endure for a reasonable amount of time, but not nearly as long at new guides. I used to rally Opel 1.9L engines, and would have the guides knurled once. They would last well for 5-6 rallies, turning 8000 RPM a lot. Then I would have new guides put in.
 
JBurch said:
A word of caution..........when cutting the valve guides for your new stem seals, try not to make the spring seat deeper, from the Mp Engine manual they only recommend cutting seats .050 deeper than factory stock, if you get carried away and go too deep, you will hit water and your heads will be junk.
Click to expand...
That is really good advice, thank you. :thumbsup:
 
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