Initial inspection of A500

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CudaFactHackJob said:
No. First thing pull in and out on the input shaft to get some idea of how much end play there is. You're just doing the front right? Tearing into the whole trans is not for beginners. Remove pump bolts and you'll find that there are two of them that have threaded holes for pulling, but you can also pry between the drums after the valve body is removed. spray oil around the pump to help it out. There's a huge square cut o-ring around the pump that seals it, that's why it doesn't just fall right out. Back off the front band adjuster. the strut will fall out. Pry gently between the drums, tap the pump back in, repeat and lube each time until it comes out. The only thing different is if you want to remove the front drum piston. It's a hassle you might want to avoid unless the clutch is worn out.
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Thanks! I was just going to inspect mine as best I can. I know youtube has vids on teardown. I don't want to take it back out later on.

Trouble is no one around here does benchwork anymore. Has to be in car.
 
Everything I've seen is for somebody who already knows how to do it. I haven't read or viewed anything that really is written or taped for someone who knows nothing. They're filled with obvious things while leaving out pertinent information. That's why I say to only drop out the front drums. There are plenty of options in that area to make enough mistakes to cause a do-over. Once you've mastered the front; then you're ready to take on more. Every part has to be inspected and tossed if it's junk, but damage isn't always readily discernible. I can't blame shops for not wanting to do bench jobs. People don't listen and can screw up all your hard work. Rule number ONE--If you don't know for sure that your trans is FULL--SHUT IT OFF. "Well I put ten quarts in it so I know it was at least lubricating everything real good"..And the converter is all scuffed up from no lube.
 
On the 518 version, lots of things need updated ...how much of that goes for the 500 .... Looks like maybe some of that stuff, like the servo, has been changed.
Chips, splinters and chunks are things to worry about.
 
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CudaFactHackJob said:
Everything I've seen is for somebody who already knows how to do it. I haven't read or viewed anything that really is written or taped for someone who knows nothing. They're filled with obvious things while leaving out pertinent information. That's why I say to only drop out the front drums. There are plenty of options in that area to make enough mistakes to cause a do-over. Once you've mastered the front; then you're ready to take on more. Every part has to be inspected and tossed if it's junk, but damage isn't always readily discernible. I can't blame shops for not wanting to do bench jobs. People don't listen and can screw up all your hard work. Rule number ONE--If you don't know for sure that your trans is FULL--SHUT IT OFF. "Well I put ten quarts in it so I know it was at least lubricating everything real good"..And the converter is all scuffed up from no lube.
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I hear you. Thanks for the advice.
 
If it were me I would rebuild it do to age and pulling around a 5400 lb truck for who knows how long. Their so easy and cheap to rebuild it's not worth the extra work to yank it back out later to do it and I can almost guarantee you will have too running it behind a stroker unless you never get on it. The good thing is it looks to be in good shape so rebuilding it shouldn't be all that expensive but I will echo the comments on using Red Eagle clutches and a good band. Like already mentioned it's basically a 904 on the front end. While their stout the torque of a stroker will trash them if their not hopped up some. Get the clearances tightened up too. I know I'm echoing a lot of comments already made but just wanted to throw in my experience of 38 yrs. of rebuilding torqueflites. I have a 408 in my car making about 475 hp and it weighs 3440 without me and I did up a 904 for it 5 yrs. ago just the way I said and am running a 4000 stall and drag radials and have literally beat the crap out of it and it still works as good as the day I put it in. Cooling is key to a long lasting trans too. Make sure to keep it cool. Mine never goes over 180 on a hot day when I'm dogging it
 
CudaFactHackJob said:
But it's nothing to drop out the front guts like I suggested earlier. How about at least checking the end play? Nothing to it. We know the weak spot on those is the direct clutch and that's the first drum to come out. It's so easy I don't understand all the discussion on checking it.
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CFHJ...I got back to the Tranny this week. I checked the endplay on the input shaft of the assembled A500 tranny. I measured the end play three times and received these three measurements with my very basic Harbor “break” dial indicator .0315” and .0279” and .030”. From the Specs I have found on the internet for the RH42 and in the ATSG manual for RE42 says 0.021 to 0.091 in. My tranny measures to the the low side of spec. Do you agree with the spec and the measurement method?

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Try doing this end play test with the trans in an "upright" direction. You will likely get a different reading, something more than the .030+- that you observed.
 
That is strange. I always tap the shaft inward then pull it out with vise grips because the direct drum can lay cocked and throw off the reading. You can also get a fake reading when the endplay gets huge and a thrust washer falls out of place. I can appreciate that your procedure is correct so far, but with an unusual reading like that, that trans would have to have been assembled initially with end play below specs.
 
CudaFactHackJob said:
That is strange. I always tap the shaft inward then pull it out with vise grips because the direct drum can lay cocked and throw off the reading. You can also get a fake reading when the endplay gets huge and a thrust washer falls out of place. I can appreciate that your procedure is correct so far, but with an unusual reading like that, that trans would have to have been assembled initially with end play below specs.
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I’m thinking there is a chance the tranny may have seen some service in its day. The accumulator spring looks to be a HD version used in the A518 or common aftermarket replacment spring. This might explain the better than average end play. The tranny came from a truck with a dash fire from a bad stereo install. I’ll find out more after I get it running.

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Here are some pictures of the inners after the disassembly of the valve body. I’m ready to start the install of the TFOD-HD2 kit. Now seeing the guts of the tranny the band adjustments make more sense now.

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Make sure the shifter selector is in this position so the valve body is not loaded under tension

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Pry between the drums where the lugs lock together. Then push that front drum rearward. Direct drum wobble is what it's all about. You sure are doing a lot of work on this thing, and still leaving the pump and drums in. The whole idea of running it without an internal inspection at this point is just mind boggling to me. "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself".
 
CudaFactHackJob said:
Pry between the drums where the lugs lock together. Then push that front drum rearward. Direct drum wobble is what it's all about. You sure are doing a lot of work on this thing, and still leaving the pump and drums in. The whole idea of running it without an internal inspection at this point is just mind boggling to me. "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself".
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Having never opened a transmission I have no relative experience
To draw from to know what I am getting into. Now that it is apart it is not so scary. The Transgo shift kit says it can be installed in the vehicle but that would be a major pain in the butt. This level of disassembly is required for the shift TGOF-HD3 kit. This is more involved than I was expecting but managable as long since I have a very clean place to work to lay out the parts and I’m not rushed. So far there in nothing in the form of debris that is scary.

Can you give me a better understanding of drum wobble. I think your referring to the area in picture #2. The drum is is tight and the teeth are always engaged
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The direct drum is the one that the front band is riding on. Push that front drum frontward and rearward. Then you will have a perfect idea of what end play dictates.
 
CudaFactHackJob said:
The direct drum is the one that the front band is riding on. Push that front drum frontward and rearward. Then you will have a perfect idea of what end play dictates.
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Understood. I rocked it back and forth and I have solid locking lug engagement. There is no way these can slip apart or work far enough back without a lot of wear. Feeling pretty good right now but “ignorance is bliss”
 
MObarracuda said:
Having never opened a transmission I have no relative experience
To draw from to know what I am getting into. Now that it is apart it is not so scary. The Transgo shift kit says it can be installed in the vehicle but that would be a major pain in the butt. This level of disassembly is required for the shift TGOF-HD3 kit. This is more involved than I was expecting but managable as long since I have a very clean place to work to lay out the parts and I’m not rushed. So far there in nothing in the form of debris that is scary.

Can you give me a better understanding of drum wobble. I think your referring to the area in picture #2. The drum is is tight and the teeth are always engaged View attachment 1715318386View attachment 1715318387
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I hate to throw this in at this point in things but this is burned clutch material, and not a very good sign as to what condition they are in.

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That's kinda funny, you think those drums can become unlocked lol. Sorry. Anyways, just check to see how far that front drum can move front to back. Then we'll see how much bliss you're feeling..
 
Well....ignorance is bliss....at this point it is damn the torpedos and full steam ahead. I’m going to finish the shift kit and get it ready for a test fit under the car.
TrailBeast said:
I hate to throw this in at this point in things but this is burned clutch material, and not a very good sign as to what condition they are in.

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Well....ignorance is bliss....at this point it is damn the torpedos and full steam ahead. I’m going to finish the shift kit and get it ready for a test fit under the car. Tranny shop says to warrant it they want it in the car. Thanks for the advise and keep your fingers crossed she has enough miles in her to work out the bugs after the install.
 
I see this a lot; people making uninformed decisions that end up costing ten times more in time, money and frustration. DUDE! It takes more expertise to install that shift kit than it does to pull the pump and front drums.
 
MObarracuda said:
Well....ignorance is bliss....at this point it is damn the torpedos and full steam ahead. I’m going to finish the shift kit and get it ready for a test fit under the car.


Well....ignorance is bliss....at this point it is damn the torpedos and full steam ahead. I’m going to finish the shift kit and get it ready for a test fit under the car. Tranny shop says to warrant it they want it in the car. Thanks for the advise and keep your fingers crossed she has enough miles in her to work out the bugs after the install.
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I did pretty much the same thing with mine, and had the same attitude about doing it later if I had to.
I was also in a bit of a time crunch at the time, but knew it was possible I might have to pull it back out and fix it at some point.


CudaFactHackJob said:
I see this a lot; people making uninformed decisions that end up costing ten times more in time, money and frustration. DUDE! It takes more expertise to install that shift kit than it does to pull the pump and front drums.
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I totally agree that it takes more to install the shift kit, and it also looks like he has all the recommendations and information he needs to make his own decision.
He knows what the possibilities are at this point.
 
CudaFactHackJob said:
Still no answer on how far that direct drum moves front to back.
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Here are the measurements I can do one handed. The gap measures .141 minus .192 = .051 with the screwdriver pushing the drum forward and backwards.
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