Richard, I got called for jury duty and selected to appear at a trial that's consumed my time for the last week and a half. I plan on getting back to the project this weekend.
Intake manifold gasket installation help
- Thread starter Bob Jasinski
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Richard, I got called for jury duty and selected to appear at a trial that's consumed my time for the last week and a half. I plan on getting back to the project this weekend.
Richard Sweet
Well-Known Member
You should start a build thread here on FABO. This is a great project.
Just pipe up and say "HANG the bastard!", then you can go back home and work on your car.
So I got back to work on the 273 over the weekend. I decided to go with using the FelPro cork gaskets under the ends of the manifold along with RTV in the corners. I also used 3M 08008 black weatherstrip and gasket adhesive to tack the cork in place and a bit on the top. I decided against using just RTV and no cork because I was concerned about the gap between the manifold and the block (pictured). In addition, paint doesn't stick well to RTV (silicone) and didn't want a gap of black showing through in time as the paint flaked off. I expect the cork will hold paint better than the RTV, and I trimmed the excess cork off. All the bolts were torqued to 23 ft/lbs (270 in/lbs per manual) and it laid in nicely.
It'll seal for a while. When the cork dries out and gets saturated, it will leak and you'll wish you had done the RTV. Looks nice, though.
Rusty, I just read through the entire thread on this intake installation, and I haven't found a single comment from you or anyone else that indicates the cork will dry out, gets saturated and leak. Why are you saying this now? Has anyone else had a problem with cork end gaskets drying out and leaking?
cudamark
Well-Known Member
I coat mine with CopperCoat on both sides. That seals them pretty good. I haven't had any particular leak problems in that area if it was sealed good to begin with. I usually hit the outside with some engine paint too, so, I can't imagine it would be a problem for the life of the engine. Most of the leaks I've run across while pulling an engine apart, was careless installation of the manifold or gaskets, or, missing sealer in the corners.
Post #15
I disagree. You said "I don't use a gasket on the China walls as they have a tendency to squish out and leak". Nothing was said about cork drying out, getting saturated and leaking.
Why did anyone HAVE to say it? We were ALL advising you to use RTV. And yes, every single cork gasket ever made dries out, gets saturated with oil and leaks. That's the nature of the beast. Look, it's not anybody else's fault that you didn't choose to follow our advice. I don't tell the whys and wherefores about a lot of advice I give. If you wanted to know why, that's your job to ask. But, as I said, the cork will seal for a while, but it will leak, eventually.
pishta
I know I'm right....
Id not be hesitant to use a stock metal shim intake gasket on those iron heads. Thats how Ma M put them together 55 years ago. Composite gaskets on aluminum intakes. Those plastic set plugs mush to nothing when you torque the heads Crush almost like wax. Cork gets a bad rap because they always seem to leak under the valve covers where they either dont seal under a bent valve cover rail or get burned by headers. The cork at the ends on my 65 barn find intake were either original or replacements that had not leaked but most of that car was put away in 1976 and stayed that way until i bought in in 1996. Same went for my 90 oil adapters original (?) cork gasket and oil pan. it didnt leak at all! Those composite gaskets will cause the intake to sit higher as well as new thick head gaskets. Many times 273/318 gaskets start in 67 as the old poly 318 was still around until 67. Once upon a time they even made a 273 (only) head gasket...try finding one today.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
I've never had cork china rail gaskets dry out, get saturated and leak, because I've never used them. All I've ever used is an appropriately sized bead of RTV on the end rails, and have never had a leak in that location. Of course, I've only been messing with these cars for about 25 years, so there are folks with a ton more experience around here than me.
Sorry Rusty, That's not how I read it. I look for input here, not overtures and assumptions. I get it that YOU don't like cork gaskets, and others prefer RTV, that's fine. However, not ALL recommended against them, others have said they were fine if properly installed, But NO ONE said they would rot. Enough with this, it's getting to be not fun anymore.
Hay bud, that's all on you. Some still use cork, some don't. I never will again, unless there's no other option. And again, "we" are not responsible for how "you" read something. You asked for help, remember? You were given good recommendations. You went a different way and that's fine. It's your engine and your money and your decision. If you want to not have fun anymore, don't try to blame that on others too, because that's your deal, not anybody else's. You were given good advice. It's no one's job to explain every little detail to you when you haven't asked.
All that said, just use the cork and be happy with it. Millions of engines sealed with it. It's just a fact that over time, cork dries, gets saturated through like a sponge with oil and leaks. It's inevitable. And you not knowing that is not anyone else's fault.
Right! Anyone whose ever cruised rows at a junkyard knows, factory cork gaskets fail. That's why you see heavy, greasy, oily buildup on timing covers, oil pans and blocks. The original cork failed over time and seeped oil all over the engine.
I will say cork is a good gasket, for a time. It conforms great to uneven surfaces and can even fill in small scratches and holes as it's tightened down. ....but so does RTV and it will not fail. I have a cork valve cover gasket on Vixen, because I could not get that new fangled silicone gasket everybody raves about to seal, no matter what I did, so I put cork on it and bam it stopped leaking. But I know sooner or later, the cork will fail and it will leak, so I keep a lookout on it.
Whatever, I gave a valid reason for not using the cork on the China walls.
There is more than 1 way to do this. He chose his way now be happy for him. What gets me is the ppl that smear rtv around the intake and water ports. If u need to do that u obviously have something wrong That only machining can can fix/correct. Kim
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I agree. He picked his poison.
Gentlemen, First off I really do appreciate the feedback and the input, that's why I'm on this list. My take on NOT using cork was that it was easier to just use RTV and ditch the cork because it could slip out of position when torquing down. To alleviate that issue, I used the 3M gasket adhesive to tack the cork down, and used in conjunction with RTV in the corners and on the water ports to assure a good seal. There was no squirming of the cork as I tightened the bolts down, the gaskets stayed in position nicely, and the finished result looks good. I'm restoring this car, the engine is original to the car, which is rare, so I do tend to stick with factory parts and methods. Engine paint will also adhere to cork much better than it will to RTV, so there's that.
So, reading after the fact that cork deteriorates came as somewhat of a surprise. Why would Fel-Pro use cork if it deteriorates from long term exposure? Many would say, "Fel-Pro is in the gasket business, that's how they make their money" or "RTV didn't exist in 1965", I agree with both those thoughts. A number of posters prefer using only RTV, I get it, but it was not unanimous. I may rethink using the cork gaskets and pull the intake, redo it using only RTV on the ends instead of cork, but I am not in a hurry, my car is still in the body shop and the owner and employee both got COVID so nothing has been done on it for several months, I have time. I also can't get more of the VHT SP155 chrysler red engine paint I like because of raw material shortages ( I contacted them). At this point I have it on the stand, It'll be there a while, I've learned projects like this don't always go smoothly, it takes patience, dedication and help from others that are in the same boat. I'm still grateful to be here.
So, reading after the fact that cork deteriorates came as somewhat of a surprise. Why would Fel-Pro use cork if it deteriorates from long term exposure? Many would say, "Fel-Pro is in the gasket business, that's how they make their money" or "RTV didn't exist in 1965", I agree with both those thoughts. A number of posters prefer using only RTV, I get it, but it was not unanimous. I may rethink using the cork gaskets and pull the intake, redo it using only RTV on the ends instead of cork, but I am not in a hurry, my car is still in the body shop and the owner and employee both got COVID so nothing has been done on it for several months, I have time. I also can't get more of the VHT SP155 chrysler red engine paint I like because of raw material shortages ( I contacted them). At this point I have it on the stand, It'll be there a while, I've learned projects like this don't always go smoothly, it takes patience, dedication and help from others that are in the same boat. I'm still grateful to be here.
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U r good. Don’t even worry about it. I hate the smearing around the ports. This using rtv came about with the Chevy V8s always leaking oil excessively. Don’t worry, be happy. Kim
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cudamark
Well-Known Member
While it's clean and dry, add a couple more coats of paint on the exposed edge of the cork and not worry about it. Unless you plan on putting another 200K on that engine, there's not much chance of it developing any kind of leak. You'd probably need to pull the engine down before then anyway! 
Man I wouldn't sweat it. It's over and done. They'll seal a good while before anything happens. Heck, you might have even sold the car by then. My only point was that RTV will not break down and leak. Period. It's just a very permanent fix. Millions of engines used cork for decades and it works. I agree with @cudamark 100%. Blow some extra coats of paint on the cork end gaskets and call it done. That'll seal them and make them last even longer. That's a good idea.
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