Interesting ballast resistor article.

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SirDan

SirDan

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Long story sort they claim with points you need the ballast resistor and with factory electronic ignition you don't and even mention performance gains. They do mention that coil life "may be compromised". I was thinking though that maybe there's a more modern style coil that could handle the higher voltage?
 
SirDan said:
they claim with points you need the ballast resistor and with factory electronic ignition you don't..................... They do mention that coil life "may be compromised".
Click to expand...

Anytime coil life is compromised, this means "things ain't right." What ya gonna do, on a 1000, 2000, 5000 mile trip carry a coil for every 500 miles or whatever?

What does "compromised" actually mean? 50 miles? 500 miles? 50,0000 miles?

Too bad we can't actually read the article.
 
67Dart273 said:
Anytime coil life is compromised, this means "things ain't right." What ya gonna do, on a 1000, 2000, 5000 mile trip carry a coil for every 500 miles or whatever?

What does "compromised" actually mean? 50 miles? 500 miles? 50,0000 miles?

Too bad we can't actually read the article.
Click to expand...

lol.. i agree. love the way that is worded.. coil may be compromised.. come on now. really?
 
Or pony up for a coil designed to operate on constant system voltage. The stock coil was not. At 12 to 13.5 volts supplied it will overheat eventually. It will leak oil and it can cause a fire.
 
Y'ever had a coil blowout? It is a loud, very violent event that sends hot, flammable, toxic oil and fine copper wire everywhere. Excellent way to start a very nasty fire under the hood. Doesn't seem like a good trade for vaguely claimed performance gains. I eliminate ballast resistors all the time, but I do it as part of the HEI upgrade , I don't randomly hack them out of factory systems meant to have them just because some magazine article said so. :roll:
 
I seem to remember there are coils out there designed to run on 13 volts, it's been a while but I believe they were used in industrial use. I'll have to look..The problem might be that the pickup in the distributor might not live at 13 volts.
 
slantsixdan said:
Y'ever had a coil blowout? It is a loud, very violent event that sends hot, flammable, toxic oil and fine copper wire everywhere. Excellent way to start a very nasty fire under the hood. Doesn't seem like a good trade for vaguely claimed performance gains. I eliminate ballast resistors all the time, but I do it as part of the HEI upgrade , I don't randomly hack them out of factory systems meant to have them just because some magazine article said so. :roll:
Click to expand...

Listen to Dan on the HEI upgrade,
I currenty have it in my Duster and ran the same set up for years in my in my old 71 d100 truck.
No issues.
Cheap simple and it works. and the best thing is you cut no factory wires.
 
if you run a pertronix setup, with a pertronix coil you dont need your resistor. the coils are internally resisted.
 
I mostly posted this up to see what people would say. I figured it was inaccurate information. I think I might send an email to the magazine and see if they reply.
 
i always see dan post that HEI upgrade..its rather tempting...im gonna see how my FBO ignition works first...if it turns out to be garbage than u know what ima do next.
 
SirDan said:
I mostly posted this up to see what people would say. I figured it was inaccurate information. I think I might send an email to the magazine and see if they reply.
Click to expand...

Actually, Dave Young's article is correct. You can, in lieu of points, run without the ballast resistor. Only problem is, it (the coil) will run hot and it's life cycle is significantly reduced.

To those that prefer to keep the ballast, just remember, a ballast is a "resistor" and it's designed to DROP the voltage going to your ignition system. There's power and economy to be had by upgrading your ignition system.

The HEI is the best upgrade for the money, sorry to all you purists, and it will run at 50KV all day long. Your stock ignition, with ballast, runs at ~30KV. It's simple physics.

Southernman
 
Southernman said:
Actually, Dave Young's article is correct. You can, in lieu of points, run without the ballast resistor. Only problem is, it will run hot and it's life cycle is significantly reduced.Southernman
Click to expand...

This is correct:

You CAN rob banks, but you might go to jail and your life cycle is significantly reduced

You CAN purposely run into other cars, but your life cycle is significantly reduced

I don't see that these rather limiting qualifications make this "correct."
 
67Dart273 said:
This is correct:

You CAN rob banks, but you might go to jail and your life cycle is significantly reduced

You CAN purposely run into other cars, but your life cycle is significantly reduced

I don't see that these rather limiting qualifications make this "correct."
Click to expand...


lmao.... i agree.
 
Here is what I surmise.

It seems there is a lot of mention that the coil is the one that cannot handle the 12 volts. The factory coil cannot handle it for long and neither can the Mopar ecu handle grounding (triggering) the factory coil load when you switch the coil to 12v.

So, even if you switch over to a 12V coil it has to have the correct resistance sum to operate with the mopar ecu.

An hei can trigger a 12v coil because you are supposed to select the appropriate resistance coil for the hei module and the hei attenuates the grounding (triggering) and regulates dwell automatically (based on rpm I believe).

SlandSixDan would you mind critiquing my approximated statement here?
 
Rice Nuker said:
It seems there is a lot of mention that the coil is the one that cannot handle the 12 volts. The factory coil cannot handle it for long and neither can the Mopar ecu handle grounding (triggering) the factory coil load when you switch the coil to 12v.
Click to expand...

I'm not 100% certain that's correct, but it probably is.

So, even if you switch over to a 12V coil it has to have the correct resistance sum to operate with the mopar ecu.
Click to expand...

A lot of coils listed and marked as "12v" or "Use without coil resistor" have a ballast resistor inside the coil.

An hei can trigger a 12v coil because you are supposed to select the appropriate resistance coil for the hei module and the hei attenuates the grounding (triggering) and regulates dwell automatically (based on rpm I believe).
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's good discussion of the workings of the HEI vs. Mopar electronics here.
 
67Dart273 said:
This is correct:

You CAN rob banks, but you might go to jail and your life cycle is significantly reduced

You CAN purposely run into other cars, but your life cycle is significantly reduced

I don't see that these rather limiting qualifications make this "correct."
Click to expand...

Actually, random animosity can be a rate limiting lifestyle as well... as in it's better that one "think" I'm just acting like a child, versus postings that actually prove such... Just sayin'...
 
Southernman said:
Actually, random animosity can be a rate limiting lifestyle as well... as in it's better that one "think" I'm just acting like a child, versus postings that actually prove such... Just sayin'...
Click to expand...

You might just want to reconsider what it is that I think you're implying. I believe you might be outvoted here, m'kay?

Either that or speak plain English, or better yet, just don't speak.
 
I read the article and it was informative. It sure beat the hell out of the hidden treasure slant six boat engine article.
 
The Crane Cams XR700 I use says to keep the ballast resistor in, unless you have the XR3000 model which was intended for racing (limited life). They don't say if the ballast resistor is to protect the coil, the XR700, or both. I would think the XR700 itself would be OK since there is no ballast resistor when cranking and a transistor would overheat fast. Thus an after-market coil should work w/ no ballast. I'll try later.
 
slantsixdan said:
I'm not 100% certain that's correct, but it probably is.
Click to expand...

Then can a Mopar ecu handle triggering a non ballast coil of appropriate static resistance? My guess is yes but the coil cannot since there is no current limiting or varying w/o the Mopar ballast thus the coil will burn up at low rpm eventually or would on the other hand fail to perform at high rpm due to low current. Is the factor determining longevity with the mopar ecu related to correct resistance of the coil load? I guess it is but to how much of an extent? It seems the current variable with the Mopar ballast is the main reason the Mopar system is not "desired" since it is slow to respond to rpm increase and decrease creating low current or current rise lag at high rpm and potential high current at low rpm.. I reckon the secondary issue is the Mopar ecu will not work w/o a ballast hooked on a coil since the coil would then have no current limiting, thus they have to be used together or neither can be used.



[/QUOTE]A lot of coils listed and marked as "12v" or "Use without coil resistor" have a ballast resistor inside the coil.[/QUOTE]

How about the blue streak ford E core you recommend for hei conversion, does it have a resistor - ballast? Does the blaster II ? I vaguely remember the blaster II having an external resistor you could opt out of if you saw fit.



[/QUOTE]Yeah, there's good discussion of the workings of the HEI vs. Mopar electronics here.[/QUOTE]

This did not clarify the functional differences in mopar ecu , ballast and coil vs an hei setup in my opinion but i think it is a start.

This page seems to have considerably more depth:

http://yarchive.net/car/ignition.

here is a little copy and paste from the page that got me interested
:
For electronically switched ignitions (as opposed to capacitor discharge)
where the coil is the energy storage element, there are only two
major and two minor considerations. The major ones are a) how much current
the pass transistor will flow and b) the dwell or how soon after the trigger
the ignition turns the current back on. Just about every ignition system
I've looked at will pass more current than any commercially made coil
will withstand so that is not really a consideration. The sooner the
ignition switches back on after the trigger the better. That is because
the inductance of the coil takes a finite amount of time to charge.
At high RPM on multi-cylinder engines, that charge time can approach
the amount of time available between sparks. (A reason why coil-per-coil
has become so popular) There are "high performance" chrysler-style
ignition modules sold for huge premiums (in the Summit catalog, Mopar
modules range in price from $39 to $79 compared to the $19 I pay
for mine) that claim more spark, stable dwell (who cares) and so on.
My measurements here in the lab shows that the generic module Rockhill
brand LX-101 (the cheapest I could find) turns the current back on
literally while the secondary ringing is still going on.

..
 
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