My bad, found the current one, it’s attached, looks very very crusty. Battery is a month old. It goes up if I raise rpm. 1000 - 13.1v, 1500 - 14.4v, 2000 - 14.7v.
Intermittent Ignition Issue [66 Valiant /6]
- Thread starter jacraest
- Start date
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cudamark
Well-Known Member
Ok, so, we assume that the battery is ok, and it looks like the charging system is working to keep the battery charged. I still would expect the idle voltage to be higher though. Maybe too big a diameter alternator pulley? Regardless, that wouldn't keep the starter from operating if the battery is good and charged. If you have a sudden no power in the start position, but, the lights and other accessories still work, I suspect the starter relay, the connections on it, or the ignition switch.
To isolate the problem, what cables should I short to isolate the ignition switch as the problem? There’s these wires:
BAT, IGN1, IGN2, ACC, and GRD.
Ground is never plugged into anything and it works regardless. The previous owner had a wire that went between two of the terminals, but I forgot which ones they were. The wire’s gone, but the ignition still works. Maybe make a small ignition on/off switch?
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Lots of the older ones sag at idle.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Well we need to start over. From scratch. Clean slate
Why is it you think you have a switch problem? What is not working, as you were just talking about it running and charging.
GROUND does not need to be used
Power comes in to the switch and BE CAREFUL AS THIS is not fused
ACC is hot both in "run" and ACC" and goes cold in "start"
IGN1 is the dark blue "run" voltage out into the engine bay, and also supplies the voltage regulator IGN terminal. That is ONLY hot in "run." It is cold in ACC or "start"
IGN2 bypasses the ballast resistor for start. It is a SEPARATE switch contact/ circuit from the yellow start wire. Normally brown, it goes to the coil + side of the ballast. It is hot ONLY in the start position
START is normally yellow, is ONLY hot in start and goes out to the start relay, "push on" flag terminal. IF THE neutral start switch on the transmission is working, and the transmission in "P" or "N" the engine should crank with the key
I usually do not recommend "throwing parts" at a problem, but that start relay looks plenty crusty
cudamark
Well-Known Member
If you suspect the ignition switch is the problem with a no-crank situation, I pull the plug off the back of the switch and use a jumper wire between the BAT and IGN2 to see if it will now crank. If it will now, it's the ignition switch, if it still won't crank (or even click the starter relay) you have a problem further downstream....probably the relay or wiring connection between the ignition switch and the relay. The neutral safety switch or it's wiring is also a possibility.
I think it’s a switch issue because randomly, the car will go to the “start” position of the ignition and not crank. no click. no noise. do not pass go. Happens at the worst of times too. The first time it happened I took the ignition out of the keyhole, wiggled it around, and it started working again. Last night when it happened I let the car sit overnight (after being towed) and all of a sudden it started cranking again.
That's either an amazing battery or a slow responding voltmeter.
Idle should be at least 13. something volts.
At 1250 rpm it should be around 14 Volts and not increase any further with increasing rpm.
Watch the ammeter and note what it shows. That in conjunction with voltage measurements can provide a lot of insight to what is going on under various conditions.
To clarify a little. The terminal labels on the relay, the key switch, and other similar components are similar but not the same as the wire names in the shop manual.
Lets use this diagram to kill two birds with one stone.
If the key is run and the ammeter is showing discharge, that shows power is coming from the battery.
Once the engine is running, the alternator should be supplying power to run the car and recharge the battery. Ammeter should show charge when charging battery, and be centered after that.
Battery wires are labled begining with A.
Ignition wires begin with J, and the slightly confusing part is
J1 is the power feed to the "ignition switch"
Ignition 1 (run) is circuit J2 and Ignition 2 (start) is J3.
Accessory circuit begins with Q
The explanations posted earlier by 67Dart should be clear enough.
Starting sequence illustrated here.
Take the switch out and use your multimeter set to resistance. Clip the probes together. Whatever that reading is,thats you meter's zero resistance. Clip one probe on the Bat terminal. The other on another terminal. Test in all key positions. Do the same for each terminal.
With the key in start, the Bat terminal should connect with minimal resistance to the ST as well the I2 terminals.
Jiggle key to make sure its consistant.
With key in run, Bat terminal should connect with minimal resistance to the IGN1 and ACC terminals.
66 Valiant wagon
Well-Known Member
I had an issue on an automatic where I randomly got nothing. The wire on the Neutral safety switch on the tranny was hanging on by hopes and dreams. Which is why it randomly completed the circuit. Good luck.
Just my $0.02
Just my $0.02
Hey guys, I haven’t abandoned the thread or anything. The car just hasn’t given me the problem again in 20 something starts since then so idk. I’ll test it when I got the time I got kinda busy before xmas n all. I appreciate the help from u guys. merry xmas. I like your idea about the wires attached to the starter relay, mines crusty so that probably contributes to the issue.
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