Is a 12 second, 20+mpg slant six possible?

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1970boy

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Hey FABO ive got a 70 dart swinger with the /6 and and want to be able to do mid 12's or better in the quarter and get 20+ mpg without nos. Is this achievable or am I in dreamland? This will be a daily driver. Other option: 12 second 360 or better with decent mileage. Any help?
 
I have heard of turbo /6's running 12s ans being completely streetable. There are some YouTube posts of some guys running 9s with 4-door /6 valiants.
 
The answer to this question isn't so much about how many cubic inches you have, it's more about how many cubic dollars you have. That is: You wanna spend your money in big chunks now on a motor build, good EFI, etc? Or gradually in smaller shots every time you fill the gas tank?
 
Possible maybe, recommended to try it? probably not!
Mid 12s,20mpg and streetable? Not hardly.
Mid 12s is 10.75lbs/hp, and race suspension, or about 9.25 pounds/hp without.
Your slanty 70 Dart is about 3050/3100 empty. Add driver,gear,and say a turbo kit;you might be around 3300. So you are looking at 3300/9.25=360hp with a street suspension.
From 225 cubes this is 360/225= about 1.6hp/cubic inches.
The only way to get this done is to be supercharged.
If you want to build the slanty to make 20mpg you will need to stay pretty conservative. Let's say .8 hp /cid and that will get you .8 x 225 =180hp. So now we have to get to 360hp from 180. 360/180=2.0 so basically the supercharging will have to double your power.
That's the math of it.
Now you have this; the factory rating on the slanty was IIRC around 140. So all the guts of that engine were designed for 140 hp. 360/140=about 2.6, so you are asking those guts to put up with 2.6 times more stress than stock. Will they handle it,IDK.
Then there is that slanty head. Can you jam enough air through that straw of a head to make 360hp? I think it's been done.
Now you want to make it streetable? Well, that kindof depends on what you are willing to put up with in terms of ride quality and engine response.
To go mid twelves is to go about 105mph. To hit 105 with a turbo'd 225 will take a pretty good balance of rear gear and convertor.Ima thinking to make the 20mpg number, you are gonna have to stay with 3.23s or less. Well 3.23s will get you 105@4200 with 27s and 5% TC slip, in direct gear. So now, not only are you trying to make 360hp from that slanty, but you are trying to do it at sub-4000rpm! So no I don't think that is gonna fly.
So the next go-to is overdrive. This will allow you to spin slower on the hiway for better mpgs, and it will allow a better race gear to et well.
So if you can get a set-up with a .71 or so O/D then you can target 105@ say 5000rpm plus TCslip, so say 5250.The power peak then could be around 4800.This looks like 3.73 to 3.91. Let's go 3.73s. These will get you 65 =about 2140, so perhaps a little high but I think still in 20 mpg territory. At the other end 3.73s will get you 105@ about 4650 plus slip or about 4800. That's a lot better. Enough to go mid twelves? Sure, just keep cranking up the boost 'til you hit the mark, or it blows up.Idk man, thats a lot of boost. To double your 180 hp slanty will require at least 15 psi.But the 180 hp engine, even with O/D will have a hard time to hit 20mpgs
Now if you lived on my side of the border where the gallons are real gallons,lol,sure.
So, back to the beginning;
Doable? maybe. Recommended to try? only if you have wheelbarrows of money .....
 
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The '03 to '05 SRT-4's were capable of both with their 2.4L turbo 4 bangers and some upgrades.

So I'm with Dan. Yes, very possible. How much money do you want to spend? A well built turbo /6 with EFI and an overdrive gear would do it no problem. You could probably make it happen with less than that if you build carefully and tune well, but that would be the sure bet.
 
Have about 10k to spend it's possible. Bbef it up and slap a fat turbo or two and you should be there
 
It'd be way cheaper to put in a LS and a 6spd. Run 12s, 20+mpg is gonna require the use of technology newer than our '60s and '70s engines!
 
Possible maybe, recommended to try it? probably not!
Mid 12s,20mpg and streetable? Not hardly.
Mid 12s is 10.75lbs/hp, and race suspension, or about 9.25 pounds/hp without.
Your slanty 70 Dart is about 3050/3100 empty. Add driver,gear,and say a turbo kit;you might be around 3300. So you are looking at 3300/9.25=360hp with a street suspension.
From 225 cubes this is 360/225= about 1.6hp/cubic inches.
The only way to get this done is to be supercharged.
If you want to build the slanty to make 20mpg you will need to stay pretty conservative. Let's say .8 hp /cid and that will get you .8 x 225 =180hp. So now we have to get to 360hp from 180. 360/180=2.0 so basically the supercharging will have to double your power.
That's the math of it.
Now you have this; the factory rating on the slanty was IIRC around 140. So all the guts of that engine were designed for 140 hp. 360/140=about 2.6, so you are asking those guts to put up with 2.6 times more stress than stock. Will they handle it,IDK.
Then there is that slanty head. Can you jam enough air through that straw of a head to make 360hp? I think it's been done.
Now you want to make it streetable? Well, that kindof depends on what you are willing to put up with in terms of ride quality and engine response.
To go mid twelves is to go about 105mph. To hit 105 with a turbo'd 225 will take a pretty good balance of rear gear and convertor.Ima thinking to make the 20mpg number, you are gonna have to stay with 3.23s or less. Well 3.23s will get you 105@4200 with 27s and 5% TC slip, in direct gear. So now, not only are you trying to make 360hp from that slanty, but you are trying to do it at sub-4000rpm! So no I don't think that is gonna fly.
So the next go-to is overdrive. This will allow you to spin slower on the hiway for better mpgs, and it will allow a better race gear to et well.
So if you can get a set-up with a .71 or so O/D then you can target 105@ say 5000rpm plus TCslip, so say 5250.The power peak then could be around 4800.This looks like 3.73 to 3.91. Let's go 3.73s. These will get you 65 =about 2140, so perhaps a little high but I think still in 20 mpg territory. At the other end 3.73s will get you 105@ about 4650 plus slip or about 4800. That's a lot better. Enough to go mid twelves? Sure, just keep cranking up the boost 'til you hit the mark, or it blows up.Idk man, thats a lot of boost. To double your 180 hp slanty will require at least 15 psi.But the 180 hp engine, even with O/D will have a hard time to hit 20mpgs
Now if you lived on my side of the border where the gallons are real gallons,lol,sure.
So, back to the beginning;
Doable? maybe. Recommended to try? only if you have wheelbarrows of money .....

Wow, I like the math approach.
 
Post from Lou Madson (dart270 on slantsix.org)


Well, yesterday I was looking at my throttle body on the 68 Dart turbo car, in preparation for installing a bigger one, and found that a plug I had put in there 4 yrs ago in one of the IAC holes (5/8"!) had blown/fallen out! Who knows how long it's been gone? OOPS. I can almost imagine when it fell out, because I felt the old turbo was not spooling up as fast, and that is why I bought this new smaller turbo -1.5 - 2 yrs ago??

After test drive: Wow, the Dart is a different car after I plugged that hole. Hard it see it won't get me another 0.2-0.3 sec. Boost response is much improved. Instead of 2-3 sec for boost to come up, now it is 0.5 sec or so.

Note to self: Inspect for air leaks once in a while. Live and learn.

I also reinstalled my rear seat and put a little dynamat in places behind it on the firewall. It did quiet the car down a bit, which is nice...

Update from 2 wks ago: Slant Six race in Hagerstown, MD on Oct 9...
After installing my re-stalled R&R converter (now 2400, originally 2000-2100, desired 2800!) the car ran a few 13.38s (and up) at 103-105 MPH. Very happy, although I thought I might go a little faster than that. The drive up and back sure was nice too.

Final comment: I was thinking I might build a new short block for this car over the winter, but I have decided to leave the old engine in there (175k miles) and focus on other projects this winter. We'll see if I can get into the 12s with the old motor next year...

Slant on,

I don't know the exact numbers, but this car gets over 20 mpg
 
Additional info. My turbo 170cid 65 Valiant, back in the early '80's was running 13.4's at over 100 mph in the 1/4, while getting about 18 mpg on the street, I used a modified Junk yard turbo from a Corvair.
 
The question has been answered, the only sure path to those goals is turbo & EFI, how bad 'Ya wanna? Oh, was that highway, or combined mpg?
 
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