vitamindart
Well-Known Member
We all paid for some GM VP's bonuses and vacations.We have all bought some Ford and GM in some sense. With tax dollars.ops:
Is A New Chrsyler A Patriotic Purchase?
- Thread starter seabee
- Start date
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I've seen people bashin hell outta Fiat, but I gotta say, they don't know. Fiat builds some of the most rugged military vehicles on the planet. All the Jeep guys know.
MopaR&D
Nerd Member
I totally agree on all aspects... unfortunately I think the only way to change that mentality of American big business would be some kind of huge catastrophe, unless you consider our current economy to be in that realm lol.
seabee
Well-Known Member
I tend to think it is also tied to consumer apathy. Consumers wanted cheap products en mass and now they have them via Chinese Labor. Consumers wanted to buy cheap stuff en mass all in one place, so they got Wal Mart. Demand still comes before Supply.
mikedevore
Well-Known Member
It wasn't that Consumers wanted cheap products, more like they needed cheap products.
Mainly due to stagnent wages, they are forced to go to Wal-Mart to buy cheap products.
Since corparations need profits & but only want to reward stock holders, they had to go overseas to supply cheap goods for the average low wage American consumer to buy.
One of these days, there might not be any consumers.
This is not the America of the 50's, 60's, Or 70's.
We have been reduced to working for low wages, long hours, no benifits, no sick leave, retirement & in fear of losing our jobs if we speak up.
If we had a WWIII, we would have to outsource for it.
Now, off my soapbox & back to work.
seabee
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply, and good points. I tend to think it also a blend of Wants as well as Needs though. A lot of consumers buy more things for the sake of buying more things and low quality products fit the bill.
moper
Well-Known Member
I'm thinking about a Ford for just that reason. I don't care if their Jeeps explode - but I'm not sure I can support a company that kicked me to the curb as a stockholder even after i stayed in with mercedes then became a division of Fiat. A lot of Ford is made overseas or south of the boarder - but it's still and american corporation.
TexasDart
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDart
I bought a Lincoln...cause that's what I wanted. :icon_smi:
How do you like it? That was on my list too but since I'm not driving it.......
I like it a lot. I would of bought another Crown Vic or Town Car but my wife liked this...a little smaller for her to get around in and boy does it have the creature comforts. AC seats are nice in Texas. It does not have the eco boost which is fine with me..still has 270 HP and with the eco boost you have to have AWD...didn't need the AWD. Very smooth driving car...its a 2010 with only 23K miles and since it was purchase in Oct 2010 it still has a bumper to bumper warranty till Oct 2016. It was less than half of what a new one goes for...and smells like new and I've only found like 2 very small dings on it and had to really look for those. Nice interior with real wood accents. 12 way seats on both sides...dual sunroofs..nav..talk to it it talks back...the lights even move with the steering wheel.
Originally Posted by TexasDart
I bought a Lincoln...cause that's what I wanted. :icon_smi:
How do you like it? That was on my list too but since I'm not driving it.......
I like it a lot. I would of bought another Crown Vic or Town Car but my wife liked this...a little smaller for her to get around in and boy does it have the creature comforts. AC seats are nice in Texas. It does not have the eco boost which is fine with me..still has 270 HP and with the eco boost you have to have AWD...didn't need the AWD. Very smooth driving car...its a 2010 with only 23K miles and since it was purchase in Oct 2010 it still has a bumper to bumper warranty till Oct 2016. It was less than half of what a new one goes for...and smells like new and I've only found like 2 very small dings on it and had to really look for those. Nice interior with real wood accents. 12 way seats on both sides...dual sunroofs..nav..talk to it it talks back...the lights even move with the steering wheel.
Lonewolf3165
Living the Dream!
Unions killed industrial America.
funwithfuel
Well-Known Member
I disagree, while I am union, I don't truly appreciate them. Yes, union wages are rather high, and the wages are a contributing factor. what you are not accounting for is all the unseen costs passed on to the business owners. in the old days we didn't have someone coming in hold our hand at work like OSHA , MSHA the EPA and any other acronyms named agency. just to meet compliance with these organizations can sometimes cause a company to close up. fines and assessments against a company for a simple spill can also cause them to close. nevermind the stranglehold the current administration has placed on corporations with insurance requirements.
do I believe the American worker is entitled to a safe place to work and benefits for his labor that he puts in each week yes. I also think America has become spoiled and complacent wanting something for nothing and no sense of personal responsibility. there was a time when people took pride in their work as I'm sure most of you do. it's clear and obvious how each of you perform a simple procedure to your vehicle ,then you post up for the world to see because you're proud of your accomplishment and rightfully so. I truly thought for a few moments for a few weeks after September 11th then I would see the war machine that is America get back into gear I was wrong. yeah everybody wave flags and said they supported the troops but when it came down to it no one wanted an increase in spending some to support troops no one wanted to spend on acquisitions first personal safety devices no one wanted any increase in spending it was going to affect them. unfortunately I see now that our previous generation was probably the last one to truly takes pride in America.
mikedevore
Well-Known Member
I think that Union workers make up 11% of the work force, so I doubt that killed manufacturing.
What did kill it was greed for profit. Profit is not enough for corparations.
They want increases every year.
How do you do that? Cut benifits, retirement, & skilled labor.
This about all they can do, because they ain't building a better mouse trap for us to buy.
If you want to talk about Non-Patriotic, out sourcing & not re-investing in America is about as Non-Patriotic as you can get.
We have a big hole for employing the blue collar worker in the USA.
Manufacturing used to take care of this. It didn't have to be a Union work place either, although the Union set the benchmark for pay & benifets.
It is a little hard to show pride in your work making 12K a year to feed your family on.
What did kill it was greed for profit. Profit is not enough for corparations.
They want increases every year.
How do you do that? Cut benifits, retirement, & skilled labor.
This about all they can do, because they ain't building a better mouse trap for us to buy.
If you want to talk about Non-Patriotic, out sourcing & not re-investing in America is about as Non-Patriotic as you can get.
We have a big hole for employing the blue collar worker in the USA.
Manufacturing used to take care of this. It didn't have to be a Union work place either, although the Union set the benchmark for pay & benifets.
It is a little hard to show pride in your work making 12K a year to feed your family on.
Lonewolf3165
Living the Dream!
I can't disagree with any of what you said. Espescially the part about personal responsibilites.
It's not really so much the wages but some of the ridiculous demands in some of the contracts that force corporations to move jobs to a more competetive place. Combine that with strangling tax burdens & regulations manufacturers are hit with. At the time of the bailouts GM was paying 5 salaries for every 1 productive person actually working on the assembly lines between retirements, rehab, severance packages, vacations, on & on. That doesn't include management or administrators. 5 salaries! How can anyone maintain a company doing that? I'm not against the union worker getting competetive salary & benefits, but the unions(union bosses- not the rank & file workers) have become more about their own greed & accululating power than they ought to be.
rotest: Too many entitlements.I too believe that when the USA starts manufacturing again it would solve most of if not all of the country's economic probems. But we need to promote it & reward it. Not punish & penalize it.
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
That's actually NOT how you do that. That's the lazy way to do that, which happens way too often. The positive and better way to do that is via innovation, efficiency and creating more value for the customer. Some companies do that right, most fail. Just wanted to point out that it's absolutely not the only way to increase profits every year. Too many lazy business people in the world, unfortunately.
seabee
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately, most stock holders have the "quick buck" approach and what you mentioned is less effective in showing quarterly results. Long-term investment is for the patient, which is not currently a trait on Wall St.
72Dodge
Well-Known Member
Absolutely true, but much of what I'm talking about can also happen very quickly depending on the vision of the decision-makers in a corporation. Quite often they are too lazy or risk-averse to change processes or invest in the correct tools. Like I said, some companies invest the time and effort to create positive change (both quick and long-term) and others don't have that vision and make the fast, easy, and often short-sighted cuts to please shareholders instead.
To the original question: I don't think that it is or isn't patriotic to buy a new Chrysler. They aren't really that much more or less American than most of the other auto makers. In hindsight we should have let our auto makers sell cars in Europe & Asia right after WW2, then there probably wouldn't be any competition now except maybe Mercedes-Benz.
DaveBonds
Garage Trash
two are econo boxes. hell the crx is a 2 seater. the prius is a lot bigger than both the other ones and has power closer to v-6 power then a tiny 4cy. not really sure where you are going with a not so fair comparison.
The Prius is classified as an economy car. It is marketed as an economy car, they are geared toward the same audience. The same people would have purchased the CRX or Metro.
New cars suck. All of them suck. Airbags are a cop out for SRS. You want to walk away from an accident? Put a cage in your car and wear a 4pt and helmet. There are no safe cars, outside of that formula, which is still imperfect, but as close as they come to true "safety".
The Metro and CRX are coffins, but hey, if every new manu stopped producing 4000lb + cars, drop a little inertia and a lot of BS from the roster, like cars answering your cellular phone for you, we might be on to something, for MPG and safety alike.
Essentially, yeah, there are manus that help the US economy from all over the world, including Chrysler, but none of the designs are worth the coin.
I could build a car that got 100mpg, no problem for the kind of money Toyota is asking for that rolling ecological disaster they call a hybrid. Lithium mines in Chili are not "free energy" and we don't have enough corn to sustain the population's fuel and crop feed demands for livestock, as well as consuming a vegtable (starch now, according to FDA) on our plates to use E-85 on everything.
The future, if there were any, for cars, will be biodiesel electric in cars that approach 2k instead of 4 on the scales.
Or every manu can continue producing SUVs to the general population, which will generally never use them for their intended purpose and I'll continue to ignore new cars as a viable plan for any duration of my future. If they want my biz as well as friends and family alike, Detroit is going to have to go back to the drawing board, because I'm not buying any of what they are telling people is modern advancement.
dbphemi
Well-Known Member
The US has been outsourcing since the American Revolution. Buy what ever makes you happy. The reason why Fiat own Chrysler is because the past owners of the company ran it into the ground. I'm happy that they are still in business making cars at all. Hopefully fiat does a better job that the last couple of owners.
Solution? Buy vintage, upgrade with "american only" modern parts. Sure you're probably not gonna get all the nice amenities of keeping your balls toasty with heated seats, traction control and anti lock.. but of course you could take that on.
It's why I don't want to buy a brand new dodge, especially the interiors of newer cars. Unless they're luxury models in the 40k range the whole interior reeks of Chinese plastic.
It's why I don't want to buy a brand new dodge, especially the interiors of newer cars. Unless they're luxury models in the 40k range the whole interior reeks of Chinese plastic.
i say shut down all companies not owned and made in the U.S.A. ok so it will put a lot of people out of jobs but without them here the big 3 will have to start builting the cars again and hire them all get that **** out of the country that our people Die for to keep of free remember we didn't go to war with them they broght the war to us if you had any family member die in ww1 or ww2 or any other of the wars what do you think they would be saying to you right now but thats just the way i feel
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