Is it possible for 318 to run with dist. 180 deg. off ???

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inertia said:
Was dinner time, sorry.
The V-8 engines common to us all turn the distributor 1/2 speed of crank, so whatever plug wire is opposite #1, fires at TDC .
In all the engines I can remember it was #6 . There certainly may be exception.
Same with 6 cyls and 4 cyls .
Our scopes were between bays, so was convenient to swing the boom and use the plug wire either side .
Cheers

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my 406 sbc would run off of no. 6 , but wasnt quite right , a well known chevy mech. that has a small block vega that runs around 8 flat , sriaghtened me out back in the day .
I suspect any engine with the firing order of an older sbc and a older mopar (18436572) engine will , mine did !!!
 
Ok here is the story, I have owned this 69 Cuda for about 12 years bought as a project car, had engine rebuilt by a local Mopar engine shop a Wayne Hyrowick near Allentown Pa. .30 over 318, Keith Black piston #167, Hastings Piston rings, Comp cam 901-16 springs, Comp. cam Xtreme Energy 20-223-3 cam, SBI Valves 1.88in, 1.5 exh., Baked & blast heads, Bore & hone with deck plate, Balance assy, polished crank, Bronze valve guides, comp. valve job, resurfaced heads, resized 8 rods, done 4/5/2014, since I have had this engine running has never idled smoothly. The engine was a complete 1977 block , timing cover and all parts where there on it for the rebuild.

I had a friend of mine stop by shortly after getting it running and broken in, to help set up this Holley carburetor per Holley rep. LIST 6989 0388 is from a Ford production car with 600 cfm, I bought this carb at the Mopar show here in Charlise Pa. from a father and son that rebuilds carbs, along with a new Procomp electronics distributor and there Procomp pc91 coil. per my notes at time of setting timing with friend which was on 9/9/15 total timing he stated to me was 40 deg.

This carb is on a Edelbrock 2176 manifold. i have only about 250 miles on this car, as stated never idled smoothly , seems like it would miss at idle, I have doubled check spark plug wires, late last year took car to a local cruise, found that was not charging and car was running very poorly did not want to idle [ stall at stop signs] thought because of low voltage due to faulty regulator that was the problem.

Over this past winter I replaced the voltage reg. and had to replace the battery. Come this year I was hopeful that was the problem.
Took it for a short drive but still would not idle/stay running in gear, came home was looking at the carb. linkages , I have the Lokar throttle cable kit and there Kickdown cable conversion kit since I have a 904 auto trans, and found that the mount bracket for these cables where missed aligned, there is a set screw that is to keep this bracket from moving so I corrected the alignment when I did the carb throttle plate snapped closed so I was hope full that was the reason why the car would not idle in gear and keep stalling.

So I was able to test drive but still would not idle stay running in gear, so I posted on here and the thought was it was a carb issue , I had the distributor cap off at one point, and half of the rotor tip edge had corrosion on it cleaned it off no change, but when I had the cap off I took notice of oil where the cap meets the distributor body, is it possible oil is coating the pick up coil in there now I do not have a Mopar distributor, but the Procomp unit it uses full 12 volts, and is it possible that while I did not have a working voltage reg, that something may have gotten messed in in the Procomp distributor ?
 
I have been on line just checking out the firing order on the dist. cap , I may have the order wrong on the cap, I have # 1 where #2 spot I thought # 1 was driver side lt front, will redo the plug order see if that helps , looks like # 1 is center front on cap ? Not sure if this is the problem put will only know if I try it.
 
If you line up the timing marks you should be able to see where the rotor is pointing
 
Excellent recap, thank-you.
Firing orders can mess anyone up, and funnily enuff, you can cross #6 and #8 wires and have the engine run almost great .
Check your firing order, one of those I posted may help guide you.
Let us know how it goes.
Good luck
 
Sounds like there is more than one problem:
- oil around p/up. Should not be there but being an insulator, would not affect spark generation.
- #1 & 2 reversed could cause rough idle. What is important is that the wires in the cap follow the firing order.
 
A better explanation, - on most(?) engines 2 pistons are always at TDC at the same time, (except odd, 3 and 5 cyl engines).
On the first revolution #1 cyl fires, - the other TDC piston #6, has just pushed the burnt exhaust outta it's cyl thru the exhaust valve, and about to suck a new fuel charge in thru the intake, this is called "overlap".
When #6 piston gets to TDC to fire, - so is #1, but it's in "overlap" on the second revolution of a 4 stroke engine .
Either cyl is accurate to set timing from .
Some of you probably knew this, but it can be hard to get your head around.
Cheers
 
So far as voltage, check your running/ charging voltage at the battery, warmed up and normalized, at a good fast idle. Battery should run at 13.5--14.2. Not much lower or higher. VR is temperature compensated so get the engine warm

Oil should not affect the pickup, but I would be concerned how it is getting there. I doubt you are driving it much? If so, how did oil get there in a short time/ mileage?

This may be a combo of timing and carb idle mixture with a larger performance cam

First attempt to verify that you do not have a vacuum leak. Check any/ all vacuum lines, and see if the booster is holding.

Do you know where your initial timing is set? Many guys try and run too retarded WITH A PERFORMANCE CAM.

Play with timing, advance it and see if it improves

Next, make certain the carb idle screws have effect. They must be set warm, and must be set AFTER timing is set, and then adjusted to highest vacuum/ highest idle RPM, and then just "touch them cw to lean. Should not affect either RPM or vacuum.

Pull the carb and examine the throttle blades, and google search "idle transfer slots." These are the little slots where the primary blades move past during transition from idle as the blades come open. You want them "in that zone" of the slots. If not double check where is the timing and see if it can use more at idle.
 
Thank you for all of your help, I was able to make headway on my problem, seems I made the basic mistake on the wiring on the distribution cap had #1 in the wrong spot, have played with timing, running a lot better sounds better also, I can now get to stay running in gear, still having issue with setting the timing as I said, I am using a Innova timing light with adjustable timing built in, when I have the gun set to normal reading I still do not see the timing mark on the bal. and timing marks on engine, when I use the timing advancement on the gun and get it up to 36 deg. then I can see the marks, this a lot better then before when I would need to advance the gun to 98 deg to see the marks, I have set the timing by max vacuum and test drove car has good power no pinging. Also readjusted the Holley carb, I have a small fuel leak on the carb below the rt side bowl area in the area of the vacuum port I hook up the vacuum gauge to, seems like car is running lean but when I work with the air/fuel adjustment screws the engine has most vacuum idles smoother with the screws about 1/4 turn off bottom out of the screws.
 
22dog22 said:
Thank you for all of your help, I was able to make headway on my problem, seems I made the basic mistake on the wiring on the distribution cap had #1 in the wrong spot, have played with timing, running a lot better sounds better also, I can now get to stay running in gear, still having issue with setting the timing as I said, I am using a Innova timing light with adjustable timing built in, when I have the gun set to normal reading I still do not see the timing mark on the bal. and timing marks on engine, when I use the timing advancement on the gun and get it up to 36 deg. then I can see the marks, this a lot better then before when I would need to advance the gun to 98 deg to see the marks, I have set the timing by max vacuum and test drove car has good power no pinging. Also readjusted the Holley carb, I have a small fuel leak on the carb below the rt side bowl area in the area of the vacuum port I hook up the vacuum gauge to, seems like car is running lean but when I work with the air/fuel adjustment screws the engine has most vacuum idles smoother with the screws about 1/4 turn off bottom out of the screws.
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It sure sounds like you have a mismatch between yout timing cover and balancer. But it sounds like the timing is pretty close. It sure would be good (as you know) to b able to see where your timing is so you can tune it better. Get that fuel leak fixed. Then you can readjust. If your idle mixture screws ar 1/4 turn out it is very lean. If it runs better adjusted that way you may have some fuel bleeding over issues. Like floats set wrong or too much fuel pressure.
 
James Clews said:
Just read on the Hughs site how to set up cam timming and it says as per all manuals crank dot to 12 oclock and cam gear to 6 oclock ! But to insert the distributor in you must turn the engin over one more revolution as this will have the distributer at number six so one more turn of the motor to get dissy at number one. Hughs blames Al Gore for this as he says it has always been like this so must be Al Gores Fault!
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Of course. It’s all calculated with an Algorithm.
 
As for the timing, as I stated it was a complete 1977 date code engine , which fully assembled, timing is on the driver side. A new balancer was installed when the engine was rebuilt.
 
We're it me, I'd prob set idle timing by vacuum gauge for best vacuum, adjust mix screws for best vacuum, - check what timing is by light, make a note of it, test drive, if it seems okay, leave it there for now, and report back .
Good job .
 
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Have you found TDC with a piston stop yet? Until and unless you do, you have no idea "where" everything is. I would do that before anything else at this point.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Have you found TDC with a piston stop yet? Until and unless you do, you have no idea "where" everything is. I would do that before anything else at this point.
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SEE POST 15. Checking the timing marks is the ONLY sure way to know where you are. Slipped balancer outer ring, mismarked aftermarket balancer, or wrong one for application

"Where the distributor is," has nothing to do with timing, so long as you can get no1 wire in where it needs to be to be in time. On most engines, and on Mopar ones, you can throw the distributor gear in without looking, toss the distributor in after it. Then bring the engine up on no1 compression and on the marks, and stuff no1 in whatever tower where the rotor points. You may have to move the wire to get enough "swing" to adjust the distributor. Time it and run it

My VERY first car, in 1966, a 57 Chev 265, I did not know any better, NO idea where I had the drive gear and no1. Ran fine. I went into a gas station and the "jock" looked in there and says "that can't run right."

"Why?"

"The plug wires are wrong, it has to be out of time."

Uh..........................................wrong.......................................

There ARE certain engines where this matters, IE V6's where the dist cap towers are unevenly spaced in pairs. You cannot move the plug wires just one hole
 
67Dart273 said:
SEE POST 15. Checking the timing marks is the ONLY sure way to know where you are. Slipped balancer outer ring, mismarked aftermarket balancer, or wrong one for application

"Where the distributor is," has nothing to do with timing, so long as you can get no1 wire in where it needs to be to be in time. On most engines, and on Mopar ones, you can throw the distributor gear in without looking, toss the distributor in after it. Then bring the engine up on no1 compression and on the marks, and stuff no1 in whatever tower where the rotor points. You may have to move the wire to get enough "swing" to adjust the distributor. Time it and run it

My VERY first car, in 1966, a 57 Chev 265, I did not know any better, NO idea where I had the drive gear and no1. Ran fine. I went into a gas station and the "jock" looked in there and says "that can't run right."

"Why?"

"The plug wires are wrong, it has to be out of time."

Uh..........................................wrong.......................................

There ARE certain engines where this matters, IE V6's where the dist cap towers are unevenly spaced in pairs. You cannot move the plug wires just one hole
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Yeah I saw that when you originally posted. I see nowhere where he's answered it though, so I asked again. Threads like this are gettin old, so I'm probably done.
 
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