Is it such a big deal?

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dartnabout

FABO Gold Member
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I know it is wrong because of the illegal factor but...if you have a title, fender tag and dash vin plate for a 74 slant 6 Duster is it wrong to use on a car that cannot get a title? I know there are those who do it but is it that wrong? If it was a rare Vin #, I understand because somewhere down the road someone could pay an inflated price for a bogus 340 4 speed. I live in PA and if the title is lost and you have no proof of ever owning it and it is more than 5 years you will not get a title. That is what is wrong and should be the illegal. I have 3 motorcycles that I would love to get titles for and can't. The title service's want $895 to get a title. The bikes are not worth that much. And I have the tags for a 74 duster but the car is long gone. What is wrong if I were to use it on a car with no title? I guess this is just a rant against the state of PA. Sorry
 
Don't forget that the VIN is stamped other places on the car like under the trunk weatherstrip. ( at least my 70 Dart is stamped there). So if the authorities really give a **** they can catch you if you change VIN plates. (I don't think they will, it would take a prick inspection mechanic to report it and they are out there). You could always go for it, what is the worse that could happen? I would think that you wouldn't want to sell the car then just junk it, the next guy might not be so easy going about it.
 
the problem raises its UGLY head when the car is sold and the truth NOT spoken. maybe you pass and someone else sells t not even knowing thus.

now the PRO guy, cuts out all the numbers stamped on the sheetmetal, buys the correct vin rivets, and thus a rebodied car like a HEMI car, and sells it to someone for a BIG price!???? I've even known people that repoped the VIN tag!

a fool and his money is easily parted? good thing I have NO money!! LOL
 
But what I am saying is it is not a Hemi car vin number and you know this nice car with no title. In the end it would be a simple /6 car. I could see if it was a Hemi vin number and it is put on a /6 car. I used International title service one time but now there is all kinds of bad publicity on him. The other one wants $895 for a simple motorcycle that on its best day is worth $1500. I know I am all over the place with this...cars...motorcycles...it just all makes me mad. You know....they have something I did when I was young (now 61) but can't get a title because it has been more than 5 years ago.
 
Is it wrong -yes,does it happen-yes.Would I rather have a rebodied car as opposed to a "shade tree welder" putting AMD panels around a VIN-yes! I have seen way to many attempts at rebuilds.How many of you guys take your cars to a certified remanufacturing shop?Check your state laws for"rebuilds" some states require rebuild status for an engine change or any member that has numbers!We must document all part sales with a title copy.We have only had two state investigations but when they want documents-you better have them!
 
That sucks man, because here in AZ I can pay my insurance company 50 bucks for a title bond, then take the car or bike down to Motor Vehicles with zero paperwork and walk out with a title and a new plate 30 min later.
No title, no bill of sale, nothing and it's under 100 for the whole thing.
 
Is it wrong -yes,does it happen-yes.Would I rather have a rebodied car as opposed to a "shade tree welder" putting AMD panels around a VIN-yes! I have seen way to many attempts at rebuilds.How many of you guys take your cars to a certified remanufacturing shop?Check your state laws for"rebuilds" some states require rebuild status for an engine change or any member that has numbers!We must document all part sales with a title copy.We have only had two state investigations but when they want documents-you better have them!

WO!. glad we don't have such BS here in Missouri!!!!

you might look into your state DMV and see how they treat title work from NON title states like Ga Al and others that do not utilize title after a car reaches a certain age, be it born in 1972 or '85 or whatever, these non title states work with registrations only. VT is also such a state but they deal with sales tax based on their book value which is NUTS!

an Al registration and bill of sale, here will get you a MIsosuri title. it does require a state inspection where they list the vin NO and speedo reading.

every state is different!!! in Ks, if a resident there buys out of state car, they have to take it to highway patrol, that CAN check all body vins if they were used that year. they can be a terror! LOL

someone sells you a car with wrong vin numbers could lead to expensive law suit. makes no difference if a slant o r hemi car. all i'm saying. I can bite a person in the butt!?? LOL!

all you are getting here is info.... do what ya gotta do
 
Well....you guys have convinced me. I am the one that has the stuff. The car was a typical PA rust bucket. I guess it's just not right that it's so hard to get a lost title for a car. Thanks for the help here.
 
Well....you guys have convinced me. I am the one that has the stuff. The car was a typical PA rust bucket. I guess it's just not right that it's so hard to get a lost title for a car. Thanks for the help here.


sounds like you made your mind up to do it and came here looking for people to say its ok.

your biggest mistake was talking about it on an open forum board. lol

in WA they do title transfers and register the vehicle sight unseen.
 
I used to work for a well known hack rebuilder in the area years ago. You would not BELIEVE some of the CRAP that he MADE us do that went outta his shop......BUT none of it was below board. It was all legal and inspected by the GBI before it went back into service......and that INCLUDED some rebodies. You CAN do it under certain situations and be legal. I've seen it ALOT with insurance wrecks for example. That's what we did. He bought totals from insurance companies and we repaired them. It CAN be done in that instance. I don't know how it would be handled in the case of a classic car, or even if it can be done, but I know we DID rebody cars.....several times and it was all perfectly legal.
 
Well believe this or not I actually discovered I had saved it by accident. I scrapped the car but saved the dash because it had a good dash pad and cluster. Someone wanted the cluster so I went to the shed and dug it out removed the pad for myself and the cluster and wiring for him and he said about the dash frame with vin, and I wouldn't sell it to him. I scrapped the car 4 years ago.

The motorcycles....I got from my 75 year old neighbor and he has no titles or proof. He was the original owner and the state still refuses to give him a title.

If I wanted to scam someone I would not have made this a public statement. I was asking out of curiosity of opinion. Again its not a 340 4 speed car. I love it here on FABO but I know I can get the scrutiny of the "Experts" and "Judges". I think if I would have posted it in the For Sale I would have been criticized.
 
This is something that shouldnt be discussed by anyone who may do it. Kinda like discussing someone youd like to kill.
 
I am not going to do it. I was asking and found it is a bigger deal than I thought. And that is why I asked. It will be destroyed just as the car has been. I don't want to get hauled into jail!
 
If I wanted to scam someone I would not have made this a public statement. I was asking out of curiosity of opinion. Again its not a 340 4 speed car.

I don't know about the legal repercussions in your state, or mine for that matter, but whether or not the car is uber rare, or a slant six granny car, doesn't make any difference as far as the laws go. I realize you are not trying to scam anyone with doing this. And like RRR said, in some situations it may be legal if you jumped thru the right hoops!
 
But what I am saying is it is not a Hemi car vin number and you know this nice car with no title. In the end it would be a simple /6 car. I could see if it was a Hemi vin number and it is put on a /6 car. I used International title service one time but now there is all kinds of bad publicity on him. The other one wants $895 for a simple motorcycle that on its best day is worth $1500. I know I am all over the place with this...cars...motorcycles...it just all makes me mad. You know....they have something I did when I was young (now 61) but can't get a title because it has been more than 5 years ago.

It sounds like you should contact you representatives and get that law changed.
 
It sounds like you should contact you representatives and get that law changed.
that's the only right way to do this.
just sucks there is no proper way for someone to legally fix this issue.

and just how much of a car can you replace and still consider it the same car?

hypothetically what if the OP's car was totaled and the only un-mangled part was the dash. then he spends the next year buying used parts from 50 different people and puts the car back together...then what have you got?

it's a mess alright
 
I realize this isn't a "rare" car, but I ask this: if you bought a rebodied 6 pack or hemi car, spent your hard earned $$$$, then later find out it was rebodied, what would you do?????

I too don't know the legal ramifications.....
 
Man is it nice living down here in GA... Any car past 1986 does not require a title and one will not be issued unless you provide one from another state. So no worry's here on that.

Sorry for your problem.... Us GA people buy cars all the time without a title.. Easy to sell to another state after it is registered here as ALL other states accept this. I have sold cars all over the country.
 
It is wrong, but I hear you. I have a rare factory 1952 triumph terrier (pre production prototype) with a super low vin # The bike was purchased in HI from a man that used to board track race it, hence never registered ever. Plus it is a prototype so who knows if it ever had a title. Almost impossible to register here in PA.
 
Now, hang on a minute.

This procedure is not the devil, any more than sideways oil drilling. It seems crooked at a glance, but there is a reason why there is a legal way to do this. It does serve a function, under the proper jurisdiction.

Technically, there is a way to do this, but it involves a Sheriff's inspection and falls under the same car builder's classification as a builder's title, a lost title, or change of ownership wherein the owner is not present (ie; deceased, abandoned vehicle, mechanics lean, etc.) People get cars without titles and without vins registered with new titles ALL the time.

How do I know? Because I've had to go through this process, twice! Point your guns all you want, but I'm about to tell you how to do this without pissing off the authorities.

Just swapping tags and heading over to the Motor Vehicle Registration Office is not the right way to do it.

The truth is, Goodmark as well as many other manufacturers sell complete car bodies that are void of any vin numbers. The body of the car is technically a part of the car that can be replaced, legally. You just have to go through the proper channels.

If a vehicle changes hands with no title or vin, is no longer in the realm of something registered with your local DOT. That does not mean that it cannot be registered.

Some vehicles never had a vin. They can also be registered with new titles.

If you are seeking to re-body a car legally, contact the sheriff's department to appoint a vin inspection. They will run the vin number through the police database and check for leans against its title as well as theft reports or other possible police impound reports for criminal activity, etc.

The sheriff will expect a court admissible, notarized document showing where the body of the car came from and its purchase date, for legal accountability of the body of the car to be titled and will be issued a title on either a new vin given to the person seeking title or a clean vin number that does not come up with any red flags or owners that do not have possession of the car, its vin and title.

If the current owner is vigilant on seeking possession of the car, after the sheriff's dept. has contacted the owner, the person actively seeking a title for the vin and car has to keep documentation of a public ad publication in their jurisdiction for a specific amount of time, in order to contact the owner. If after this time frame, the owner still does nothing about retrieving their property, they forfeit their legal ownership over to that jurisdiction's sheriff's department and the vehicle becomes technically impounded by that city or county.

If you are curious, just call your Sheriff's department. They deal with a lot of this and are always willing to help people seek clean and legal ways to save an old car from the crusher.

I do NOT advocate illegal activity of any kind, but I wanted anybody interested in titling a vehicle that does not have a title or vin, that there is a way to do this correctly.
 
With that said; PLEASE be careful about where you obtain and purchase cars from, that do not have a title and demand a bill of sale that can be notarized, with a copy of the seller's driver's license, for your own protection and have a notary stamp it in front of both of you.

I have seen people lose out on cars, rightfully, because of current owners claiming property on sold vehicles. At that point, its your dollar in claims court versus their ownership and any proof that you have, so be sure that you have court admissible documentation before handing over any cash or accepting any bill of sale or any part of the car. I can't stress this enough.

It protects you from criminal activity, puts property in the rightful possession and keeps you from losing money, or at least gives you the ability to pursue it in civil court against fraudulent sales.
 
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