Is More Flow Better, Is The Smallest Intake Port That Flows The Most The Best

[Rat Bastid]

all it takes is a tape measure and a cell phone camera and a couple privet messages and ya could quit going back and forth wondering whos peckers the biggest....lol..damn!

I‘m thinking of making the wanker an offer. It would settle once and for all if he can actually port a head and make power or not.

Being the blowhard he is he will refuse it.

 

[Hysteric]

Let me guess every head you port pulls harder on the booster making it suddenly richer?

 

[92b]

I get what you're saying, but torque isn't power. Power is literally horsepower, it's in the name. Torque and power are two entirely different entities.
Gearing will affect the 60' more than the actual torque number. POWER is what accelerates things. Power is work times time. Torque is a force times a distance, it has no unit of time involved.
HP is responsible for everything that happens as soon as the crank starts turning. HP drives the water pump, the alternator, the torque converter.

Understanding the time element in equations and systems is a major stumbling block for many people as they transition from static physics into dynamic physics. The per-unit-time part comes from RPM, displacement, movement, speed(velocity). Without the per-unit-time part, the static torque value is meaningless. Torque will only tell you if something will move, not how fast, not how far. Work is required to figure out how far something can go, power determines how quickly it can reach a velocity or a distance(displacement).

Physics 202 ;)

Gearing is a torque multiplier and does affect the actual torque number as does tire circumference. At the point where the rubber meets the road.

 

[92b]

I get what you're saying, but torque isn't power. Power is literally horsepower, it's in the name. Torque and power are two entirely different entities.
Gearing will affect the 60' more than the actual torque number. POWER is what accelerates things. Power is work times time. Torque is a force times a distance, it has no unit of time involved.
HP is responsible for everything that happens as soon as the crank starts turning. HP drives the water pump, the alternator, the torque converter.

Understanding the time element in equations and systems is a major stumbling block for many people as they transition from static physics into dynamic physics. The per-unit-time part comes from RPM, displacement, movement, speed(velocity). Without the per-unit-time part, the static torque value is meaningless. Torque will only tell you if something will move, not how fast, not how far. Work is required to figure out how far something can go, power determines how quickly it can reach a velocity or a distance(displacement).

Physics 202 ;)

I think that saying that HP and TQ are two entirely different entities is what confusing the whole subject. They are directly related. Torque is part of the entity that is horse power.

 

[92b]

LOL, no RPM and GEARING is what moves anything.

I say again, put your torque monster into 1:1 gearing and see how hard it moves out.

Thats why God gave man the common sense to build gearboxes.

Look at it this way. If you have to remove a Chrysler crank bolt do you grab a 1/4 drive ratchet and use all your muscle to get it loose (and probably shitting your pants if you do get it loose) or do you grab a 1/2 drive ratchet and a 2 foot bar?

Thats simple gearing.

I can’t believe in 2023 this is so misunderstood.

I don't get your 1:1 gearing analogy. Are you comparing a car with no gearbox to a car with a gear box?
If those two cars are lined up side by side and they have the same engine torque the car with the gear box will have an advantage off the line. It's because of the torque multiplication provided by the gear box. The car with the gear box has more torque where the rubber meets the road.
Or you put two cars side by side each with 1:1 gear ratios and same tires and one car makes it's torque peak at a low rpm and the other car makes it's torque peak at a high rpm. The car with the torque peak at the lower rpm will have the advantage off the line.
I"m sure this isn't what your trying to explain with your analogy. So please explain what you mean.

 

[Phreakish]

This is really one of the most misleading statements I have ever read in my life.

Physics doesn't "break down at some point". Physics is universal. If you think it is "breaking down", then you simply haven't understand what is going on.

There will always be an explanation to what is happening – you just haven't worked it out yet. By "you" I am referring to the third-person you. At least I hope I am. Our understanding of physics may "break down", but the physics itself is there to be discovered.

You misunderstand.
Physics doesn't break down. Instead, expected results differ from observed results due to effects which are extremely difficult if not impossible to model. Even the best computational models are nowhere near 100% accurate.

 

[Aussie Charger]

LOL! I didn't "misunderstand" anything – I read verbatim what you originally wrote, which is a little bit different to what you have just posted. But still . . . If you would like to answer the following question, I'd be grateful.

Which car accelerates faster: the one with peak HP or the one with more torque under the curve? To remove any doubt, by "curve" I am referring to the rpm range the engine spends its time in during each gear change during a race.

 

[Aussie Charger]

Let me guess every head you port pulls harder on the booster making it suddenly richer?

Now, now. You know he can't read that because he put you on ignore. Until he takes you off ignore because he's too thin-skinned to contemplate that people are talking about him while he has them on ignore!

Happy to dish it, but can't take it. That's weak.

 

[Bakerlite]

Now, now. You know he can't read that because he put you on ignore. Until he takes you off ignore because he's too thin-skinned to contemplate that people are talking about him while he has them on ignore!

Happy to dish it, but can't take it. That's weak.

Lol, he's got me on pseudo "ignore" as well, because he can't take what he dishes.
As far as ST being a "cesspool", well it sounds to me like he's been banned from there before, and every time he gets identified as another user he gets banned again.
So now he's forced to read the posts and not say a word, or to control himself, and not get identified.
Either way, you don't have to hear him carry on like a chook over there, which is nice.

 

[Bakerlite]

I‘m thinking of making the wanker an offer.

This isn't going to involve a bottle of Crisco oil is it?

 

[Aussie Charger]

When comes to engines all we care if it's able to do work we want to do, everything your going on about is unnecessary to that end. Hp curve gives us the information we need, even with the electric motors and there more aggressive power curves.
View attachment 1716039776

I think we all know that. Perhaps the next graph can better explain why torque is king.

One engine makes more horsepower than the other. But which accelerates faster? Again, I think we both know the answer.

Here's another one. Same engine with just a manifold change. The long-runner manifold change resulted in an extra 39hp. But was the car any faster? Can you tell by looking at these dyno figures which car is faster?

Trick question! They were almost identical because the average torque (and power) are almost identical.

Drag Strip	High Torque / Low HP	Low Torque / High HP
60-foot	1.69	1.69
330 – foot	4.87	4.90
660- foot – 1/8th mile e.t.	7.48	7.51
¼ mile e.t.	11.64	11.69
¼ mile mph	118.7	118.3

OK, so that 39hp was worth an extra 0.05 and 0.4mph. Now, which of these engines – considering they are just as fast as each other over the 1/4 – is really the better engine?

 

[Aussie Charger]

This isn't going to involve a bottle of Crisco oil is it?

Love your signature mate.

 

[Hysteric]

But it made more power on the dyno......

 

[273]

I think we all know that. Perhaps the next graph can better explain why torque is king.

One engine makes more horsepower than the other. But which accelerates faster? Again, I think we both know the answer.
View attachment 1716040126


Here's another one. Same engine with just a manifold change. The long-runner manifold change resulted in an extra 39hp. But was the car any faster? Can you tell by looking at these dyno figures which car is faster?

View attachment 1716040127


Trick question! They were almost identical because the average torque (and power) are almost identical.

Drag Strip	High Torque / Low HP	Low Torque / High HP
60-foot	1.69	1.69
330 – foot	4.87	4.90
660- foot – 1/8th mile e.t.	7.48	7.51
¼ mile e.t.	11.64	11.69
¼ mile mph	118.7	118.3

OK, so that 39hp was worth an extra 0.05 and 0.4mph. Now, which of these engines – considering they are just as fast as each other over the 1/4 – is really the better engine?

Who talking peaks only, yes it about the curves the hp curves.

Here's a tesla dyno chart, see why it don't need gears it makes enough power from zero to 127 mph and able to turn enough rpm's to do so. At 8 mph it's making 67 hp at 4 mph about half that more than enough power. If you wanted to go quicker you'd add a couple of gears to get in the 250-300 kw quicker between zero-55 mph.

 

[Aussie Charger]

Who talking peaks only, yes it about the curves the hp curves.

The guy I was originally addressing (see below) – which wasn't you BTW, so I'm not sure how we got into all this, LOL!

Although you have also mentioned a couple of times that you can calculate ET and MPH etc from HP figures alone. But that's only using a standard formula that does not always work for engines that have relatively flat torque curves. In which case, they can make less peak HP but still accelerate faster – as I believe I have demonstrated.

Exactly. And if you took it to the track it would run like it makes 375 HP. Even if the TQ was 800 it would still run like it made 375 HP because thats all it made.

Horsepower moves the car.

^ This is the point I'm making. Peak HP does not tell the full story.

You can claim TQ moves the car but it doesn’t.

^ And this, which is just ignorant.

 

[Aussie Charger]

But it made more power on the dyno......

Yes. In one case 39hp on the dyno. So why isn't it "39hp" faster?

 

[Killer6]

Oh Boy,.............