Is there such thing as a good lifter?

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Clelan

Clelan

Inferno Red Duster
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Is there such thing as a good hydraulic flat tappet lifter available today? I had 1 lifter start ticking real bad. It has very little use on it. 1 went bad right away and I replaced it. Now another one a year later. What is the safest bet? And where can you actually get them?

Cley
 
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I'm assuming you're talking about hydraulic flat tappets...
Right now, good ones = old ones. New ones seem to be very dicey. Luckily, I have some "old stock" sets to get me by for now- However, I also have many good used sets that I am going to try this (which has been highly recommended to me by multiple sources):
Lifter Resurfacing – Egge Machine Company
Gives new life to your used lifters.
 
Professor Fate said:
I'm assuming you're talking about hydraulic flat tappets...
Right now, good ones = old ones. New ones seem to be very dicey. Luckily, I have some "old stock" sets to get me by for now- However, I also have many good used sets that I am going to try this (which has been highly recommended to me by multiple sources):
Lifter Resurfacing – Egge Machine Company
Gives new life to your used lifters.
Click to expand...

I've noticed an uptick in people tying to buy lifter refacing machines.
 
The Rhoads VMax are very high quality. Only problem is, they are kinda a waste of money if you don't need or use the bleed down feature. Since they are adjustable, you have the option to let them bleed from zero to "about" 20 degrees off the duration. But, they are some of the best lifters made.
 
89on35s said:
Is there such thing as a good hydraulic flat tappet lifter available today? I had 1 lifter start ticking real bad. It has very little use on it. 1 went bad right away and I replaced it. Now another one a year later. What is the safest bet? And where can you actually get them?

Cley
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I hear ya. For ***** n giggles... about how much preload do you think you have on them, like least to most?
 
RustyRatRod said:
The Rhoads VMax are very high quality. Only problem is, they are kinda a waste of money if you don't need or use the bleed down feature. Since they are adjustable, you have the option to let them bleed from zero to "about" 20 degrees off the duration. But, they are some of the best lifters made.
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I think you will find that "zero' bleed off is never attained with the Rhoads lifters.
 
Bakerlite said:
I think you will find that "zero' bleed off is never attained with the Rhoads lifters.
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That's not true with the ZMax. Read up on them. They're fairly new. You use a feeler gauge to adjust them like a solid.
 
I read up on them a while ago. As long as they are a bleed down lifter, they will continue to bleed down through the whole lobe cycle, regardless of how you set them with a feeler gauge. Maybe not as much as at low RPM, maybe not as bad as the older design, but they will still do it and I doubt they would reach absolute "zero" bleed down.
It's a function of the lifter, it's built into the design.
It's like bailing water with a bucket that has a hole in it. The faster you bail, the less water you will lose through the hole, but you will still lose water.
Oil temp, viscosity, pressure , aeration and valve spring pressure are all factors that also effect the bleed down rate.
Having said that, it doesn't mean that they wouldn't be of some benefit in some applications and I have read where people have had good results with the newer lifter.
 
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Professor Fate said:
New ones seem to be very dicey.
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RustyRatRod said:
The Rhoads VMax are very high quality.
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I gotta say I have been down this road in the last several years.
New small block Comp Cam with 4 that wouldn't pump up. Pulled them, took them apart, didn't find a problem,cleaned them reinstalled.Same problem.Removed all and reinstalled with Lunati and still have one that ticks at Idle.A little rpm and it goes away.Very annoying.I have tried to ignore it for 3 years now.Car runs fine so I'm leaving it alone.
Have used Rhoads, they make 2 or 3 different ones for Mopar. You must adjust per their instructions for the lifter used.
Why I say this is a guy was having trouble with his Rhoads,found out he was not setting them per the instructions.
Like most of us we don't read the instructions.Only after we have a problem.
89on35s,In your case I would research as much as possible and then choose.I understand the High Lift Johnson get good reviews.
 
What everyone overlooks is lifter diameter verse the lifter bore. Any clearance over tolerance will cause a pressure leak at the bore. When ever an engine is rebuilt it is due to wear of serviceable parts . Lifter bores also wear and are always overlooked.

They make and sell oversize dia. lifters. But I would recommend truing and bushing the lifter bores as part of your rebuild process because usually they are worn oval. Many shops just lube them up and slide them in the holes and many holes are out of round from 50 years of wear. We made the same mistake on an engine . Kept blaming the lifters when it was the bores.

Solid lifters are the only way to skip the lifter bore issue causing that dreaded ticking. But it is still not correct repair.
 
Bakerlite said:
I read up on them a while ago. As long as they are a bleed down lifter, they will continue to bleed down through the whole lobe cycle, regardless of how you set them with a feeler gauge. Maybe not as much as at low RPM, maybe not as bad as the older design, but they will still do it and I doubt they would reach absolute "zero" bleed down.
It's a function of the lifter, it's built into the design.
It's like bailing water with a bucket that has a hole in it. The faster you bail, the less water you will lose through the hole, but you will still lose water.
Oil temp, viscosity, pressure , aeration and valve spring pressure are all factors that also effect the bleed down rate.
Having said that, it doesn't mean that they wouldn't be of some benefit in some applications and I have read where people have had good results with the newer lifter.
Click to expand...
There was a Johnson lifter white paper I read that stated all lifters bleed down as a design restriction. You can only get the piston to lifter wall clearance so accurate with the price point. I thought I read that a good lifter will bleed down in 4-10 seconds under spring pressure. That is not a defective, it's a fact of manufacturing design as they don't have rubber seals between the piston and the bore like a hydraulic cylinder. This is completely functional as all the lifter needs to maintain piston height is under the duration the lifter is at lift, or tenths (or hundredths at rpm) of a second. All lifters will collapse over time when there is no oil pressure. Oil pressure only snugs the piston up to the pushrod. Then the check valve closes when the pushrod starts to push down on the piston in the lifter, like a hydraulic jack. That makes the lifter a solid (pretty much) piece for the duration of the lifter cycle. All you need to do to get that undamaged crown lifter back into service is to inspect and /or clean the check valve/disk device. There usually are some sparkles at the bottom of the closed end of the lifter due to no provision to drain these during operation. Clean em!
 
Are we adjusting from the bottom or top our preload and are we noting the hole/valve height to know which end to set it so it doesn't hang the valves.
I used to get decent run of the mill lifters through pioneer, springs as well...very fair prices too.... then about 1 in every box become an off n on ticker...sometimes going away...random...at start up...then not and out of nowhere at idle stopping at a sign. I'd put my foot into and it would stop. I pulled it apart..nothing seemed bad. Was riding on a crane 340 bp cam. I almost want to say I had a mp hyd that I gutted and transplanted the inerds to the pioneer...but don't quote me on that.
 
Observations from many lifter threads on many websites.

1) Comp Cams is involved way too often.

2) People mixing oil and additives is involved 90% of the time

Does anyone that buys the correct oils for classic car flat tapper cams have lifter failure. Brands like
Penn Grade
Joe Gibbs driven
Redline
VR-1

buy the right oil and then you don’t need any additives.
 
Well I use the Lucas Hot Rod Oil. It is supposed to be high zinc and the right stuff to use. My oil pressure is 50 cold and never less than 15 hot. I don't think incorrect oil is my issue. Once I get it out, I'll take it apart and see what I see. Unfortunately it will be a crap shoot whether the new one I put in lasts or not. That is if the cam is ok.

Cley
 
About 4 years ago I bought several sets of nors lifters. Got enough to hold me over for my lifetime.
 
PRH said:
Hyd lifters in performance applications seems to be a crap shoot these days.
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Yep, it's a pain in the ***. If I can pull them out of the lifer bore after break in for inspection, then I do it. It doesn't take long to do.
 
I'm no machinist, but I would have thought soluable oil would have been more appropriate than wd40 as a cutting lubricant? Walk into a machine shop, and the place stinks of it. (I quite like the smell, it reminds me of freshly machined engine parts)

Edit, @ that LA-Phant video
 
Bakerlite said:
I read up on them a while ago. As long as they are a bleed down lifter, they will continue to bleed down through the whole lobe cycle, regardless of how you set them with a feeler gauge. Maybe not as much as at low RPM, maybe not as bad as the older design, but they will still do it and I doubt they would reach absolute "zero" bleed down.
It's a function of the lifter, it's built into the design.
It's like bailing water with a bucket that has a hole in it. The faster you bail, the less water you will lose through the hole, but you will still lose water.
Oil temp, viscosity, pressure , aeration and valve spring pressure are all factors that also effect the bleed down rate.
Having said that, it doesn't mean that they wouldn't be of some benefit in some applications and I have read where people have had good results with the newer lifter.
Click to expand...
Oil pressure has nothing to do with how Rhoads lifters work. It's strictly based on engine RPM.
 
Bakerlite said:
So they will work with no oil pressure?
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They restore duration based on engine RPM. It's all on their site how they work. It says plain as day oil pressure does not play a role in that.
 
Off the Q&A section of the Rhoads web site.
"Q. Is it oil pressure or rpm that restores duration?
A. Rpm. Quite simply, at lower rpm Rhoads Lifters have more time to leak down. As the rpm increases they have less time to leak down and at approximately 3500-4000 rpm virtually full lift and duration are restored."
 
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