Just taking a poll, how much would you be willing to pay for a set of headers that are an exact duplicate of the jeep srt8 manifolds. A friend of mine and I are thinking of making some, there seems to be some demand.
Jeep SRT8 Manifolds
- Thread starter Tincup
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Canadian Cuda
Active Member
Personally I have been looking for a set of Jeep SRT8 manifolds. Reason, hopefully a cheaper option to the TTI headers which are a bit expensive. Performance and fit are the main reason use a custom made exhaust manifold/headers. Just my opinon. Not saying the TTI are not worth the money, just not in my budget.
I think it would be great if someone else made a ''manifold'' that would work with the hemi swap. But once you get around $400 to $500 dollars you might as well buy the headers. I thought it was a little pricey but I bit the bullet and ordered a set. I got them about 2 weeks ago and Im very happy with the quality:-D. just my .02
Red383
Well-Known Member
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I wouldn't pay more than $400, when I could buy factory take offs for less than $200. I bought my SRT-8 JGC manifolds for $190.
Plus I still have to confirm they will fit with the facotry K-frame and steering.
Maybe I'll get that done this week...
swisswill
Well-Known Member
I always hate saying this, but Mopar guys are cheap. I'm willing to pay the long dollar for a set, especially if they worked in my application since I'll either have to build my own OR have a custom set built from Stainless Headers. Any chance they could be built as block huggers and sucked in real tight?
HemiMark
Well-Known Member
I'll be using SRT 8 Jeep manifolds when I do my 6.1 swap into my 64 Dodge Crew cab.
Buschi340
Well-Known Member
i wish I could find some here..... :-(
rapidtransitric
LX/LC platform a body swap pioneer
exactly will i've been building mopars for over 35 years and i am trying to figure out when the mopar enthusiast became cheap. i thought that was saved for the chevy guys. thats why they build chevy's they're cheap a dime a dozen.
leave all the whining and pitty parties to them.........
tin i think it's a great idea i'd buy a set!!!
Map63Vette
Well-Known Member
I think the big reason all the Mopar guys seem cheap is because all of our parts are so dang expensive. If you look at Summit's site there are something like 20 pages of small block Chevy heads. There are like, 5 small block Mopar heard PERIOD. Because of that all of the prices are driven up. I don't mind buying new parts, I just don't like spending twice as much for a Mopar part because it's Mopar. Kind of like buying parts from the store and not the dealership. The dealer wanted $280 for a ring set and I could buy a set aftermarket for $150.
I think it is like a catch 22, Mopar parts are expensive because nobody buys them, so they cant make large enough volumes to bring the price down. And the reason nobody buys em' is because they are so expensive.
swisswill
Well-Known Member
I'm going to be slightly cold-hearted, hopefully not disrespecting though, and say I really don't have sympathy on any of us for the price of parts. We did it to ourselves. Most of us knew the cost of parts are higher for Mopar going in, that's life, we took the plunge anyway, gripe about the price of parts, and opt not to buy because they are just too expensive. Well, when you opt to buy something used or not buy all together, you're doing your part to keep the Mopar prices high. Let's be honest, Mopars are a bit of a niche market. There's a reason that the vast majority of Mopar builds are slightly modified resto's, street/strip, or flat-out strip, and I don't think it's because those styles of build are the most popular out there. I think it's because they are the most inexpensive you can do in a Mopar.
I knew prices were high, and for me they are only higher because the last thing I want is the same old Mopar, I want mine to be different. So when I talk to vendors about doing a custom part or doing something for Mopar they already do for someone else, I almost always get the same response, the price they need to sell for Mopar guys aren't going to pay.
Couple examples:
My hood... I contacted every single fiberglass company that builds a 69 Dart hood asking them to do one with the SRT scoop. I spoke with US Body who used to have one advertised on their site and because of a lack in demand pulled it. Well that mold has to be somewhere collecting dust, and they would not pull it out. NO glass company would do it. So, I'm going to have a bunch of coin in a one-off hood because I don't want the same old Mopar. But it sure is going to look cool.
Valve Covers... I have a certain look I'm going for under the hood of my car and that includes nicely crafted sheet metal valve covers for my 5.7 Hemi. I contacted two companies who do VERY nice parts, I mean VERY nice, and also sell GM / Ford parts. Same thing, Mopar guys aren't going to pay the price I need to get for my hand crafted parts that take a lot of time to build and look as good as they do. Fortunately for me, I was able to find a set through a member here and picked up a quality set for twice as much as the GM / Ford guys would pay, but you can see the quality and you can see the value in the price I paid.
Billet... If you look at some of the top GM and Ford builds, you are likely to find a lot of billet parts and pieces. NOT because they are cheap, but because they are quality pieces that look awesome! I've contacted MANY of these companies about doing hinges (trunk/hood), door handles, other bits and pieces, and again, I get the same response, Mopar guys aren't going to pay what we need to sell them for. Which would be the same price as the GM and Ford guys are paying. Oddly, the GM and Ford guys don't mind paying those prices. Hmmm.
I know Tin can give you examples as well. Bakaruda can do the same as he's been spearheading with some companies trying to get some cool stuff for the Mopar guys. He has stuff in the works personally that as much as I hate to say it, will probably be more than what Mopar guys want to spend. Although many of those same Mopar guys will say, I want, need, wish for one of those, but... Which is too bad because that may keep a great product from coming to us.
Sorry for being so long-winded. I'm really not trying to be disrespectful but this is the reality we live and build our cars in. Obviously I feel a particular way about this subject, and for good reason, I've been hearing the reasoning, and witnessing it online for a while now. I wish everybody the best with their builds and hope that someday, we get the same level of parts availability as the GM / Ford guys, even if it comes at a higher cost, but I'm not going to hold my breath. In the meantime, I'll keep doing everything custom and one-off.
I knew prices were high, and for me they are only higher because the last thing I want is the same old Mopar, I want mine to be different. So when I talk to vendors about doing a custom part or doing something for Mopar they already do for someone else, I almost always get the same response, the price they need to sell for Mopar guys aren't going to pay.
Couple examples:
My hood... I contacted every single fiberglass company that builds a 69 Dart hood asking them to do one with the SRT scoop. I spoke with US Body who used to have one advertised on their site and because of a lack in demand pulled it. Well that mold has to be somewhere collecting dust, and they would not pull it out. NO glass company would do it. So, I'm going to have a bunch of coin in a one-off hood because I don't want the same old Mopar. But it sure is going to look cool.
Valve Covers... I have a certain look I'm going for under the hood of my car and that includes nicely crafted sheet metal valve covers for my 5.7 Hemi. I contacted two companies who do VERY nice parts, I mean VERY nice, and also sell GM / Ford parts. Same thing, Mopar guys aren't going to pay the price I need to get for my hand crafted parts that take a lot of time to build and look as good as they do. Fortunately for me, I was able to find a set through a member here and picked up a quality set for twice as much as the GM / Ford guys would pay, but you can see the quality and you can see the value in the price I paid.
Billet... If you look at some of the top GM and Ford builds, you are likely to find a lot of billet parts and pieces. NOT because they are cheap, but because they are quality pieces that look awesome! I've contacted MANY of these companies about doing hinges (trunk/hood), door handles, other bits and pieces, and again, I get the same response, Mopar guys aren't going to pay what we need to sell them for. Which would be the same price as the GM and Ford guys are paying. Oddly, the GM and Ford guys don't mind paying those prices. Hmmm.
I know Tin can give you examples as well. Bakaruda can do the same as he's been spearheading with some companies trying to get some cool stuff for the Mopar guys. He has stuff in the works personally that as much as I hate to say it, will probably be more than what Mopar guys want to spend. Although many of those same Mopar guys will say, I want, need, wish for one of those, but... Which is too bad because that may keep a great product from coming to us.
Sorry for being so long-winded. I'm really not trying to be disrespectful but this is the reality we live and build our cars in. Obviously I feel a particular way about this subject, and for good reason, I've been hearing the reasoning, and witnessing it online for a while now. I wish everybody the best with their builds and hope that someday, we get the same level of parts availability as the GM / Ford guys, even if it comes at a higher cost, but I'm not going to hold my breath. In the meantime, I'll keep doing everything custom and one-off.
Buschi340
Well-Known Member
Will, very good examples and I understand both points of view. If I would live in the States I would never have a problem with buying new parts or complete sets. In my eyes all your prices are cheap. Chevy maybe even cheaper but not from interest here.
If I have to order my numbers are as follows (example):
milodon 31000 oil pan
Summit 205 USD
shipping 50 USD
taxes & customs fee 25%
total: 312 USD
Or buying in a german shop:
(4 weeks delivery for such parts)
€ 250 Euro
converted to USD:
USD 350
So you say "expensive" ??? What should I say, especially it comes to heavy & big parts?
If I have to order my numbers are as follows (example):
milodon 31000 oil pan
Summit 205 USD
shipping 50 USD
taxes & customs fee 25%
total: 312 USD
Or buying in a german shop:
(4 weeks delivery for such parts)
€ 250 Euro
converted to USD:
USD 350
So you say "expensive" ??? What should I say, especially it comes to heavy & big parts?
swisswill
Well-Known Member
Buschi, you've got quite the different reasoning going. And while I can not relate now, I'm hoping (???) to soon. I have a buddy here in Zürich that I've been talking about building a pro-touring rallye inspired Opel Manta. I'm having a rendering done now and am hoping that we can start this while here. If not, it will have to wait until I'm move back to the states. Shouldn't be too costly of a build, gutted racer for some fun on tarmac rallye's, car slalom's and hill climbs; so we are talking anyway.
I can imagine it's pretty tough though adding an extra 50%+ on all parts orders from the States or elsewhere. Comparatively, the US prices are good. And honestly, I don't think U.S. prices are necessarily bad, I think they are just higher than what people WANT to pay, or what they feel they SHOULD pay. I have no problem paying for quality parts, especially those that take skills I don't have to produce.
For example, the headers here that Tin is talking about. I have never built a set of headers, I don't have a TIG welder, I don't have the foggiest idea how I would start building a set. I could probably learn and do it, but that would take time I don't want to spend right now in my build. I look at the price as not just a product of the product, but a product of the skill, training, equipment, etc. to build such product. Things I don't necessarily have, nor the time to invest at this point.
I can imagine it's pretty tough though adding an extra 50%+ on all parts orders from the States or elsewhere. Comparatively, the US prices are good. And honestly, I don't think U.S. prices are necessarily bad, I think they are just higher than what people WANT to pay, or what they feel they SHOULD pay. I have no problem paying for quality parts, especially those that take skills I don't have to produce.
For example, the headers here that Tin is talking about. I have never built a set of headers, I don't have a TIG welder, I don't have the foggiest idea how I would start building a set. I could probably learn and do it, but that would take time I don't want to spend right now in my build. I look at the price as not just a product of the product, but a product of the skill, training, equipment, etc. to build such product. Things I don't necessarily have, nor the time to invest at this point.
Buschi340
Well-Known Member
what kind of Manta? A, B ? This sounds cool. A buddy of mine just changed from drag racing to slalom. Reason was/is the unpayable "Materialschlacht".... (Ascona B was my first car ever)
If only the shipping and tax/fees wouldn't be so pricey I would have already TTI long tubes here. 800 dollars are so damn cheap. But you are right, you've got to relate it. Btw good next price example, TTI 61H178: 830 USD at TTI shop vs 1700 USD in Germany.
But now I stop crashing this thread... ;-)
If only the shipping and tax/fees wouldn't be so pricey I would have already TTI long tubes here. 800 dollars are so damn cheap. But you are right, you've got to relate it. Btw good next price example, TTI 61H178: 830 USD at TTI shop vs 1700 USD in Germany.
But now I stop crashing this thread... ;-)
swisswill
Well-Known Member
Not to keep hijacking, but I'm just learning about the Manta and researching them. I'm pretty much thinking any 74 Manta at this point, it's going to be totally different than what it started life as anyway.
hi-jack off
hi-jack off
Buschi340
Well-Known Member
one thing please: a buddy here in Germany swapped the Manta A front axle into his 69 race dart. Received rack & Pinion steering and got rid of the torsion bar suspension... ;-)
joeboy
Well-Known Member
I dont mind paying the $$ for a good product. "Buy Nice, or Buy Twice" is a saying a buddy has taught me, and it usually turns out true in my experience...
That being said, I would pay in the 500-600 range if I was still in the market.
I wouldnt pay as much as the TTI's, because there is gains to be had by a long tube header, makes it worth a bit more in my book...
JOE
That being said, I would pay in the 500-600 range if I was still in the market.
I wouldnt pay as much as the TTI's, because there is gains to be had by a long tube header, makes it worth a bit more in my book...
JOE
Couldn't have said it better myself.
As for the headers, let's look at what it really costs, the block flanges are $60, the ball & cone flange for the other end are $80, the tubing is about $120. Now let's add in, welding wire, gas, abrasive cut off wheels, grinding discs, electricity, etc. So for round numbers let's say $300 in materials. Now I have to invest in a tubing bender, I have to buy steel to fabricate two fixtures to constrain the tubing so that the headers come out the same every time. Now let's discuss labor, what is mine and my buddy's time worth? We estimated that for the first couple of sets, approx 40 hours each, so that is 80 man hours, to design and fab. (Obviously the more we did, the faster we would get. ) So let's do the math, $750 for the headers - $300 in materials, leaves $450 for labor, that works out to $5.62 / hour. Do you make more than $5.62 / hr. ??
As you can see, we are not in it for the money, we are trying to provide a service to all the guy's who need these parts. If I was in it for the money, they would cost $1400, yet most of you feel this service in not worth $400. That's OK, good luck finding Jeep manifolds, Ma Mopar get's $450 EACH ( how many guy's with $50k Jeeps are ripping their manifolds off? )
HemiMark
Well-Known Member
Parts are expensive but what to do? save a little more and a little longer and stop the whining. Tin is dead nuts on the money and Swiss, long winded and all is also on the mark. Man, would I like parts less expensive, sure. Am I going to wait until the price comes down, no. Its no wonder the "A body" guys are considered the cheep ones out of the group (B,E,A) You boys ever buy Toyota parts?? keep wrench'n!
:read2:
Buschi340
Well-Known Member
it is stupid to compare handmade parts with industrial parts. And Tin can only drop the price if he gets a good deal with higher quantity (discount in purchasing). Work is the same.
Hm, and yes I bought Toyota parts for my Dart. Same part as Ma Mopar did for Durangos... ;-)
Hm, and yes I bought Toyota parts for my Dart. Same part as Ma Mopar did for Durangos... ;-)
+1
Cevidicus
CevidiGrinch
I think there could be market for a header that falls in-between stock manifolds and the long tube TTi's. Something that fits well and flows better than stock manifolds. At an intermediate price.
Asking what buyers are willing to pay will get different results in different economies.
I too have spent much time and money developing a product. It's offered at a fair price.
Sure the production cost goes down with higher quantities produced.
Sales numbers go up as economy improves. Customer satisfaction and positive feedback increases sales also.
Can you recoup your initial investment on the first few sales ? No.
Will your initial "fair" sales price remain unchanged and yield a modest profit eventually ? Pray about it. Works for me.
I too have spent much time and money developing a product. It's offered at a fair price.
Sure the production cost goes down with higher quantities produced.
Sales numbers go up as economy improves. Customer satisfaction and positive feedback increases sales also.
Can you recoup your initial investment on the first few sales ? No.
Will your initial "fair" sales price remain unchanged and yield a modest profit eventually ? Pray about it. Works for me.
I don't agree with the philosophy that a smaller header should therefore be less money. Tha same amount of effort goes into making each, with a slightly less expense on materials. Does the guy who wears a size 8 shoe, pay less than the guy who wears a size 11 ? There are trade off's to the different tube lengths. Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand, the long tube will make more horsepower, but less torque, while the shorty will make more torque and less HP. Which would you rather have?
joeboy
Well-Known Member
Tin,
I didn't mean at all that the smaller/shorter header would cost less or be cheaper. I simply meant that the extra HP from the long tubes is worth some extra coin in my book.
Overall I think you are correct with your HP/Torque thing. A good point since most of us are building street cars, lets face it, torque is really what gets the job done on anything but a drag car.
I believe long tube headers can keep the torque by using smaller initial primaries, then stepping to larger tubes at a certain distance. (a buddy of mine has some header building software and says that TTI would have been better using 1 5/8, then stepping up to 1 3/4 based on the specs of the 5.7... He even told me the distance of the step-up, but I cant remember)
I guess I wont really know 'til later today if the TTI's are the wrong/right choice, the motor is going in today, and I hope I don't have fitment issues...
JOE
I didn't mean at all that the smaller/shorter header would cost less or be cheaper. I simply meant that the extra HP from the long tubes is worth some extra coin in my book.
Overall I think you are correct with your HP/Torque thing. A good point since most of us are building street cars, lets face it, torque is really what gets the job done on anything but a drag car.
I believe long tube headers can keep the torque by using smaller initial primaries, then stepping to larger tubes at a certain distance. (a buddy of mine has some header building software and says that TTI would have been better using 1 5/8, then stepping up to 1 3/4 based on the specs of the 5.7... He even told me the distance of the step-up, but I cant remember)
I guess I wont really know 'til later today if the TTI's are the wrong/right choice, the motor is going in today, and I hope I don't have fitment issues...
JOE
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