Don't recall turning the carb upside down before installing but I wouldn't rule it out. Also, going on late at night memory alone, I seem to recall that most if not all the wet plugs came out of the passenger side of the engine. Carb is a Edel 1806 AVS.
just rebuilt runs bad
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Inertia
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I this a new cam and lifters, or used, thnx
JoeDust451
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By judgeing from your earlier reply you tinkered with the ignition & it runs much better, your on the right track, I still stick to it being an ignition issue.
green1
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It probably wants 18=20 initial.
mullinax95
Well-Known Member
It might be another crappy Comp Cam problem.... seen a bunch of them lately... mainly lifters... when he started the post he was talking about "tapping".
What you think?
What you think?
JoeDust451
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When you have major ignition issues where its not firing at the right time it'll bleed the lifters down on the affected cylinders, Firing when not on compression stroke & the valve is still open. He was also talking about backfiring through the carb as well, If you read his later reply he mentioned the lifters settled down & it runs much better & not missing or backfiring after messing with the ignition..
I've also seen flat cam lobes do this too, popping back, But thats when the cam is really bad & has a few flat lobes, I'm sure he has checked to see if all the rockers where moving. He also clearly mentions in his original post about "backfiring" along with tapping lifter noise. Links below.
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1623604
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1629987
At 15 BTDC the motor no longer backfires through the carb and their are no unusual noises or sounds. Unfortunately it runs bad with no power and pings and misses when throttled while driving. Also ran poorly at 20, 25, 30, and 35 BTDC. Not until I set initial timing at 45 BTDC did the engine run well. At 45 it seems to run great. A very quick mash of the petal starts to turn the car sideways. No pinging, good temp, good oil, not hard starting.
This post started with the engine running well at 60 BTDC. Now it doesn't run at all at 60. There was also backfiring through the carb and noise at 10 BTDC, at 10 now the noise and backfiring is gone. So there is some improvement but I really haven't changed much, relocated the MSB box and wiring and just for grins changed a distributor spring from heave silver to light blue. The rest just lots of testing and verification.
I don't like to throw money at things without at least thinking to myself that I understand but in this case I'm ready to buy an new distributor. I just don't feel good about the one I'm using now and it's been suggested a couple times by others in this post.
Still baffled, still looking for new ideas and feedback. Thanks.
This post started with the engine running well at 60 BTDC. Now it doesn't run at all at 60. There was also backfiring through the carb and noise at 10 BTDC, at 10 now the noise and backfiring is gone. So there is some improvement but I really haven't changed much, relocated the MSB box and wiring and just for grins changed a distributor spring from heave silver to light blue. The rest just lots of testing and verification.
I don't like to throw money at things without at least thinking to myself that I understand but in this case I'm ready to buy an new distributor. I just don't feel good about the one I'm using now and it's been suggested a couple times by others in this post.
Still baffled, still looking for new ideas and feedback. Thanks.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
You are using a "dial up" timing light? That would be my no1 first suspect. I KNOW people are gonna come on here and toot their horns. But I"ve found several of these over the years that were UNRELIABLE and INCORRECT. Get/ borrow a conventional light with NO digital features
At this point, and as much trouble as you have had I would DEFINATELY find a useable breaker point dist for testing. You should be able to find a used/ rebuilt one for not much, and you can get rid of all the digital crap and SEE what it's doing.
In addition, you can STATIC TIME the points dist fairly accurately and use that as a "double check" against your light.
I understand you DID confirm timing marks with a postitive stop?
Next step IS (if using a points dist) is to double check initial timing.
You have to do this "backwards" because you don't know what the curve is in the distributor.
So first set the engine at high RPM to about 38*, then idle down and see where the initial ended up. Note that figure.
Next, you can "double check" it by using static timing
Wrench the engine around to where the intial timing showed in the first test, IE 12* or wherever it might be.
So, at this point, the timing marks are aligned, NOT at TDC, but at 12
Loosen the dist, and use a test lamp on the coil neg, with key on.
Retard the dist (CW on a SB) then SLOWLY bring the dist CCW until the points open (lamp lights)
Retighten the dist, and recheck the running timing. These figures should agree plus/ minus what little you may have fudged it. If you did this right this should be in a couple of degrees or so.
For now, with a points dist, I would NOT worry too much about initial. One thing that might help is to yank the heavier of the two advance springs off. Time it for "mechanical total" and experiment with 35-42. The engine should be sluggish and may heat less that 35, and it should ping and do other bad things over 42 by any amount. The damn thing simply should not run at all at 60 or whatever you said, which is another reason I suspect your light is AFU
At this point, and as much trouble as you have had I would DEFINATELY find a useable breaker point dist for testing. You should be able to find a used/ rebuilt one for not much, and you can get rid of all the digital crap and SEE what it's doing.
In addition, you can STATIC TIME the points dist fairly accurately and use that as a "double check" against your light.
I understand you DID confirm timing marks with a postitive stop?
Next step IS (if using a points dist) is to double check initial timing.
You have to do this "backwards" because you don't know what the curve is in the distributor.
So first set the engine at high RPM to about 38*, then idle down and see where the initial ended up. Note that figure.
Next, you can "double check" it by using static timing
Wrench the engine around to where the intial timing showed in the first test, IE 12* or wherever it might be.
So, at this point, the timing marks are aligned, NOT at TDC, but at 12
Loosen the dist, and use a test lamp on the coil neg, with key on.
Retard the dist (CW on a SB) then SLOWLY bring the dist CCW until the points open (lamp lights)
Retighten the dist, and recheck the running timing. These figures should agree plus/ minus what little you may have fudged it. If you did this right this should be in a couple of degrees or so.
For now, with a points dist, I would NOT worry too much about initial. One thing that might help is to yank the heavier of the two advance springs off. Time it for "mechanical total" and experiment with 35-42. The engine should be sluggish and may heat less that 35, and it should ping and do other bad things over 42 by any amount. The damn thing simply should not run at all at 60 or whatever you said, which is another reason I suspect your light is AFU
moper
Well-Known Member
There are a few possibilities for the advance curve. For what you have, you should be running one light silver, and one blue. There are also heavy silvers. You should not be running them. Also, the bushing for the mechanical should be the largest one. I think it's either blue or black but it's in the tuning book that came with the distributor. I still think the cylinder pressure is indicating a problem more than likely with the cam timing, but those settings for the ignition should get you close. If it still wont run like that (and after tuning the carb following those changes) then it's time for the shop to look at the cam timing.
Bulldozer
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i have had edelbrock carb issues that has caused the exact issues you refer to ,brand new out of the box. backfire, misfire, flooding,lack of power etc etc. do you have a solid 5-7 lbs of fuel pressure? try a different carburetor, try a regular electronic distributor and box.make sure your ballast resistor is conncted to its correct terminals. its sounds to me like it is ignition/fuel issues and not in the build. if it is running and you have good oil pressure and temperature, and it doesnt sound like it is going to come unglued then i would go through everything that makes it run if you have already pulled the cover and made sure that the timing marks are looking exactly eye to eye,and stabbed the distributor and wired it correctly starting with the rotor on number one and have gone the correct rotation on the cap.i apologize if i missed something in this thread that you have already tried but this is my 0.02$
Thanks, what may cause the cylinder pressure to be a little low? Your previous post mentioned removing the intake and looking at the cam. What would I be looking for? I'd leave this job to the machinist. Not that I don't feel capable but if the engine is going to get opened I want it done by the guy who closed it
kman521
Well-Known Member
There is but if you have a points distributor available with a ballast resister to the coil why not eliminate the MSD altogether.
My bet is the MSD is giving you false timing readings.
If you are running mechanical advance in the distributor and timing it at idle for 45 degrees you would have way too much timing for it to run that good and not ping.
If you are sure the timing mark is correct get rid of the msd for now.
Inertia
Well-Known Member
You're cylinder pressures can vary depending on the guage.. I've had 3 different guages in my shop,, including a "snap-on" .. they were all different pressures, but ALL of them showed cylinder inbalances .. as long as all pressures are within 10%, don't worry about the "numbers" on the guage..
yes...you can...the white wire is used to trigger the msd from the points..
look at your instruction sheet or go to msd and download the installation for a msd 6al
Idaho
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This thread shows how a good bunch of FABO guys are willing to jump in and try to help. The advice varies but that's OK because its all well intentioned.
I feel for you, must be very frustrating but I'm sure you'll get it solved with help here. You will know a lot more than when you started.
I'm learning from this and very curious about the final outcome.
My Christmas wish for you is a great running 340 Duster.
Post a good burnout video when you get there! :burnout:
I feel for you, must be very frustrating but I'm sure you'll get it solved with help here. You will know a lot more than when you started.
I'm learning from this and very curious about the final outcome.
My Christmas wish for you is a great running 340 Duster.
Post a good burnout video when you get there! :burnout:
JoeDust451
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You are getting very close, From what i heared the engine sounds great, you can try a point distributor for testing, because you shouldn't need any more then 38* total, Now on that distributor, i'm sure its the one i ran on my last 360 & i loved it, remember it is "totally" adjustable, from the curve/how fast it comes in & you can tighten it up, It'll come with bushings, I had mine with a total of 20* advance, all in at 2200, now my cam was small, so it idled great at 10*, If yours is good at 15* initial, I'd set it up for 20* total advance, then you can run it 16* int., 36* total, have it all in around 2200, test from there, do not run any vacuum advance, just plug the ports, MSD/Mallory/Crane boxes can/will advance the timing around 3-5* from other ignitions like stock HEIs/ECUs ect., even points, but that doesn't mean you run it 3-5* advanced over where it would run best, IMO your very close now, work on setting up the curve, the instructions will show you what bushings/springs too install for what your after, They normally come with blue/silver/gold springs in pairs, this will adj. how fast you want the total to come in, the bushings are for the total amount you want.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
What I'm leaning towards is to SIMPLIFY the ignition, in case it's "false triggering" for some reason, and while we're at it, consider running temporary added ground AND hot lead to the ignition to eliminate a harness/ bulkhead connector problem.
For initial setup, you should be able to "power time" (set timing at high RPM) to 35 or so and LEAVE it.
For initial setup, you should be able to "power time" (set timing at high RPM) to 35 or so and LEAVE it.
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