K-Member / Rack & Pinion Steering Suggestions
- Thread starter Mopar Virgin
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easy fix ....retro fit the HDK upper shock mount and support hoop. Would not be the first to make the change. and while you are at it, likely remove an inch off the control arms and bring your wheels / tires inward. Some even switch to a longer shock / spring combination .....and get a nicer ride.
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BTW.....the HDK remedy / fix for the Gerst failure is now available in steel and aluminum. The 100% bolt on chromoly support hoops complete the install. NEVER a failure in over 2 decades,
racerjoe
Well-Known Member
Super-Cuda
MOPAR .. Move Over, Plymouth Approaching Rapidly!
Cudo's to you and your team for coming up with a superior fix for the poor quality of someone else's part Denny but, for me, I'd just be worrying that some other equally bad component of the assembly would fail resulting in injury/death to me or someone else.
Junk is junk..
I'd cut my losses and throw the whole works in the garbage.
After looking at what's available and listening to comments on here and elsewhere.
HDK, RMS or upgrade the stock factory components.
Cheers!!
Can't help it.....it's in the blood! Thanks for noticing.
I understand where you are coming from and I do see at least one additional potential problem area.....time will tell.
To be honest (as opposed to being not honest) I never could understand the big deal with the Gerst, It was simply a poor copy of the successful RMS / AlterK. With Control Freak already making their round tube version (copy) of the RMS / AlterK, there is / was nothing innovative, different or improved about the Gerst. I'm all ears, please tell me what I missed. You can image my surprise when in a casual phone conversation with my Qa1 rep he told me Qa1 had bought Gerst. My immediate reply to him was...."That's a great fit!!, Gerst doesn't even use your shocks!" And then I had to asked him....Did the same geniuses that approved the CAP purchase....do this purchase? He sheepishly replied....uh yes. BTW, that same rep told me in Qa1 eyes, Mopar people are different breed to which I proudly replied..."yes, we are!".
All I can do is grin and shake my head. For the record, since 2010, Qa1 has been the exclusive shock for all HDK builds. At over 30K of Qa1 products in 2021....its a few shocks / springs. I guess one could say HDK was using their shocks on Mopar rack and pinion / coil over conversions....before they were.
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Uh, CAP was a good purchase. The QA1 LCA's were virtually unchanged from the CAP versions when they were initially released, they've only had a minor redesign since they were released to add the bump stops. The QA1 strut rods are identical to the CAP version. The K frame required some re-design, and the UCA's were totally redone. In the grand scheme of things, it got them into the Mopar arena pretty cheap since CAP's reputation was already flagging. But their designs were pretty good, it was just their production that sucked. QA1 takes the good designs and solves the production issues. And taking something from small scale production to larger production always requires some changes anyway, so some of those redesigns from QA1 may very well have been for production.
The Gerst purchase is a good purchase as well for the exact reasons you already said. The Gerst is basically a copy of the RMS with a few questionable design/construction areas, like having a multi part upright for the coilover mount. Well, that's a super easy thing to change on production, which QA1 has to set up anyway. So, QA1 fixes a few minor issues when it's making changes for production anyway, and suddenly it has a competitive coil-over replacement that very much resembles the RMS. Without having to buy out RMS (much more expensive) while bringing their name and marketing to what is basically a proven design.
Yeah, from a business standpoint it actually makes a TON of sense.
Cap was crap from the get go. Design wise....their rack and pinion / coil over design utilized OEM spindles with Rub Goldberg steering arms / lower ball joint. the the scary results being massive bump steer and reverse ackerman.
from CAPs building /fabrication standpoint....too many pretty migg welds that did not penetrate, while they may have looked good on the surface, many broke right off. Being CAP was right in my back yard (Michigan), I have personally seen many failures that resulted in crashed cars.
CAP was amateur hour at best.
Gerst is / was obviously a good salesman....I'll give him that. He called me twice and lied about his intentions to pump me for info. Shame on me, I believed him and helped him out. The following week (in 2016) he announces he knows it all and is now in the rack and pinion / oil over conversion business. That BS doesn't go too far with me.
from CAPs building /fabrication standpoint....too many pretty migg welds that did not penetrate, while they may have looked good on the surface, many broke right off. Being CAP was right in my back yard (Michigan), I have personally seen many failures that resulted in crashed cars.
CAP was amateur hour at best.
Gerst is / was obviously a good salesman....I'll give him that. He called me twice and lied about his intentions to pump me for info. Shame on me, I believed him and helped him out. The following week (in 2016) he announces he knows it all and is now in the rack and pinion / oil over conversion business. That BS doesn't go too far with me.
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Yeah, you've missed the point.
QA1 didn't use CAP's coilover conversion or rack at all, and made some changes to their torsion bar K frame. And yes, from a fabrication standpoint CAP was crap. But if you're buying a company, a company with a few good designs (LCA's, strut rods) and bad fabrication is a good choice, especially if you're going to fully take over production. The crappy weld issue was totally solved the minute QA1 bought them out, as they have great fabrication/production. CAP may have been in your back yard, but I ran their UCA's, LCA's, and strut rods on my Challenger. I still run their strut rods, as there is literally no welding in their construction and they're a sound part (70k street miles on them without a hiccup). I had no issues with their UCA's, although I saw the failures and don't run them anymore. And I had a weld crack on one of the LCA's, although honestly that was over 50k miles in.
But even having had one of the CAP LCA's fail, I have no issue running the QA1 LCA's on my Duster because the welding issues were solved. It's also how I know the design of those parts didn't change, I can hold them up side by side with the CAP parts.
And again, all of that misses the point. QA1 is buying the designs and then re-working them for production. Buying CAP, keeping their designs and losing the CAP name/reputation is a great move for a company, they get the designs cheap. And yeah, the QA1 versions of those parts are great. Gerst is the same thing all over again. QA1 will fix some of the fabrication issues and have a great part that will be ready to compete with RMS, and you, as soon as it hits production. Given the size of QA1 and their distribution they will be formidable. Like, I can go on Summit right now and put in an order for their full conversion, super easy.
1974 PLYMOUTH DUSTER QA1 52343-S400 QA1 Mopar Front Street Performance Coilover Conversion Systems | Summit Racing
And yeah, it looks like they already fixed the uprights
If you believe buying poor engineering and copied designs is a good thing....then Qa1 might have a position for you!
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Bakerlite
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People do it all the time.. if the price is right!!!
abodyjoe
Well-Known Member
his claim to fame was his was cheaper then the RMS unit. of course it was. it used lesser components then the RMS. from what i understand it is now the same price as a RMS unit and still uses a lesser rack then the RMS.
Super-Cuda
MOPAR .. Move Over, Plymouth Approaching Rapidly!
So ... here is my observation of the choices presented.
RMS Alterkation.
Extremely well built and engineered . Proven reliability over years of use in both racing and street applications. Owner, Bill Reilly is readily accessible and also uses the products he makes in his own projects. Great customer support and great feedback from customers as well.
5000 miles on my system, easy installation, performs flawlessly , no issues , very happy !
HDK Suspensions
Extremely well built, innovative engineering. Denny, the owner is one of the most accessible people in the business and is very engaged with his business and his customers. Proven designs, reliability and excellent customer feedback!
If I had known about HDK when I was buying, it would have been a very tough decision on which system to choose.
CAP AUTO / Gerst (Whatever, they're gone now)
Cobbeled up, poorly constructed ,unsafe, JUNK !!
Be safe first.
Stay the Fu*k away from this garbage.
QA-1
Components seem to be of good quality based on users/builders comments. No idea of who owns/operates the company.
I'm not sold on the K Member . flimsy looking frame mount points, new shock tower design looks better but we'll see.
Are they merging bad manufacturing/build quality by incorporating CAP and Gerst into QA-1 ?
Not a chance in hell I'm buying anything from this company.
Too many questions for me.
Let them experiment on the Chevy/Ford people!
I agree with you on that point on being formidable.
I find HDK customers when spending this kind of money, like to ask questions....it's not like buying toothpaste at the pharmacy. Almost every initial phone call I get starts out with "I have a few questions". I would wager there is less than a 1% chance the guy at the end of the phone (Summit / Qa1 / Mancini / etc) has NEVER installed one, yet alone worked on a 60's-70's Mopar and has no clue about anything except for what is written in their web site description....and that is IF you actually get to speak to someone within a reasonable length of time. Heck, I'm a Qa1 dealer and end up on hold for over 20 minutes at times. I cannot speak for the others, but that will never happen with HDK. I spend a lot of time evenings, on weekends / holidays etc with customers because that is when they are working on their projects.....I love it, nothing better than BSing with my Mopar friends / customers and feeling like I am right there in the garage with them. Believe me, I know how important it is to get answers when you need them because I'm one of those guys.
and at HDK, I am proud that I do not follow the one size fits all / cookie cutter platform. With different rim / tire sizes and everyone's individual idea of how they want their prized Mopar hot rod to sit, I feel it is extremely important to take the time to listen to their needs and to make sure they get the look and performance they are paying for. Do you really think the Chevy guy at (insert big name supplier here) gives a rats *** how cool you want your Mopar to look, yet alone drive?
I guess if you want to just push a button.....go for it. However, if you want knowledgeable, personalized service, call the ones (Mopar guys) that actually designed (not copied), built, use and sell their own products.
By the way....have you ever heard the one about the big company that buys or runs the little guys out....only to raise the price once the little guys are gone?.
Just keeping it real.
HemiDenny
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Super-Cuda
MOPAR .. Move Over, Plymouth Approaching Rapidly!
Great points and very well stated.
Hope you and the other true Mopar " little guys' are around for a long time.
Cheers!!
Hope you and the other true Mopar " little guys' are around for a long time.
Cheers!!
I totally agree with you Denny. I already am of the opinion that a lot of people make the decision to use a coilover conversions on these cars without having all the information needed to really evaluate that decision. And being able to just point and click one from Summit is not going to help that. And I'm sure we'll see more people showing up here and asking questions when they have issues because although I do like the QA1 stuff that I run their tech line is not going to have a ton of Mopar experience (if any).
I'm also not a fan of them calling it their "stage III" kit, implying that it's a higher level of performance than the torsion bar based suspension. Because no one has actually ever shown that, and the real world performance results repeatedly seems to show the opposite. Although that always gets muddy with driver skill and individual build differences.
As you know I prefer modifying the torsion bar system. But I totally appreciate what you do, especially the level of customer service you provide and the fact that you're here to answer questions and back up your product. Obviously there are always pros/cons, but it's not lost on me the time you spend here answering questions. While I have to appreciate any company launching new products for our Mopar, I really kinda wish QA1 wasn't offering a coilover conversion. Because yeah, a ton of people are just going to buy it because it's QA1 and they think they're going to get some massive improvement vs torsion bars.
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