Keisler 5-speed conversion on Early A-body: Install has begun

[fstfish66]

kool site,, how do you find these sites???? what do you search????

 

[oldmoparsrule]

Hey fstfish66,
I stumbled upon Mosher while hanging out with a friend whose office is across the street from Bob Moshers shop in Monrovia. I saw all the incredible old B bodies outside his shop and had to stop and look at his shop. He took time to chat with me, and showed me a few of the projects he was working on. I am told he is booked out years in advance...It is obvious based on the work he does.

Thanks,
Clint S
San Gabriel

 

[oldmoparsrule]

I'm convinced now this will be the best route for me by far. The Mosher boyz are not too far down the road from Ventura. Very cool work they do for sure. I may call and check out if I can see their shop and the jig they use. From the pictures I see it is looks pretty easy lifting the car up with the engine hoist as they did, which is what I was originally thinking. I just didn't now how safe it would be until now. You guys should check out this link. Awesome pictures. SOme of the best I've ever seen.
-Thanks Clint for the link that helps tons

Hey Dave,
I am about 10 minutes from Moshers shop. If you make it down this way, send me an e-mail...I would not mind a trip over to see Moshers shop.

BTW, In looking at the jig they use to lift the chassis, it does not seem very difficult to weld up. Might be worth making something that would work...I am sure we could build it substantially cheaper than what someone quoted earlier in this thread...Besides, I need to get ready to weld up my upper control arms and need to dust off the cobwebs from the welder.

Thanks,
Clint S
San Gabriel

 

[daves66valiant]

Hey Dave,
I am about 10 minutes from Moshers shop. If you make it down this way, send me an e-mail...I would not mind a trip over to see Moshers shop.

BTW, In looking at the jig they use to lift the chassis, it does not seem very difficult to weld up. Might be worth making something that would work...I am sure we could build it substantially cheaper than what someone quoted earlier in this thread...Besides, I need to get ready to weld up my upper control arms and need to dust off the cobwebs from the welder.

Thanks,
Clint S
San Gabriel

I used to live in Pasadena. I'm guessing they are somewhere off the 210 fwy.

I am definetely going to weld up my own jig. It will be a good project for me and I have some extra pieces of steel I can work with. It looks like all I really need to do with the engine stand is remove the vertical bar and install a couple of support bars up front to support/steady the front of the K-frame. By looking at all the pictures I've seen I have a pretty good idea of how to do it now. I like the simple use of 4x4s in the Moshers pics. Simplicity is good. If I end up coming down I'll let you know. The Fling for sure.
-Dave

 

[Dodgenut64]

Looking at your pics so far, i think the shifter will come up through the console were the auto shifter did. Wont know for sure until i get some measurements. How far back from that little round tab in the tranny hump would you say the shifter comes up?

 

[dart4forte]

I'm about 50 miles north on the 101 fwy. I should be at the fling but I think my car will still be under construction at that time. I get dibs on the first keg stand if you stop by :headbang:

We'll have to get together and share some ideas on our cars.

 

[daves66valiant]

Looking at your pics so far, i think the shifter will come up through the console were the auto shifter did. Wont know for sure until i get some measurements. How far back from that little round tab in the tranny hump would you say the shifter comes up?

Good question I will check it out tomorrow. Didn't get anything done today. Busy with domestic stuff. Ah nevermind I'm checking it now.

Okay if you are talking about the small black grommet, it is 1 3/4 inches from the shifter cut-out hole's front edge.

 

[daves66valiant]

We'll have to get together and share some ideas on our cars.

Absolutely. I will PM you my number sometime if you like.

 

[djwhog]

miss you guys!

I used to attend the fling every year, lived in West Covina for 40+ years, been in Cody WY for 7 now. We do have some really nice cars and shows in Cody in the late summner, and in Billings MT. A lot of older folks with nice cars and BIG wallets I guess.. I am old fashion, I do the work myself like most the rest of us..

Any of you guys going to Vegas for the Mopars at the Strip? Maybe we could hook up for a beer or 3?? :drinkers:

 

[daves66valiant]

Okay got a little bit done today on the trial conversion. Went to Lowe's to pick up a piece of carbon sheetmetal to make a duplicate floor hump template. Cost $27. Little high I thought so I went to the local steel yard and they didnt have any and would have to order the 18ga steel. The guy pointed me in the right direction to find some though. Went to a metal fabricator shop and found some reminants/scraps for real cheap. $5.00. :thumbup: Will be returning the other piece to Lowe's. Anyways, got back home and traced & cut out the spare template to make the floor hump.

Step 5) Make a 90* bend on the rear section of the template. I used some duckbill vise grips I got from Harbor Freight ($4.00). Figure 1. Then you are supposed to center and line up the template shifter hole's front edge 1/2" forward of the shifter cutout hole in the floor tunnel.

Step 6) Shape the sheet metal over the hump. This is where the Keisler directions sucked *** especially if you are not a proficient fabricator or have proper tools. They have a few lame pictures from a 4-speed conversion. Different than my setup being as it was an automatic. Anyhow, I looked close enough at the photos to find that there we a couple cuts made in the template that made it easier to bend and shape the metal. I also found a couple of tricks that may be helpful in getting a nicely shaped floor tunnel.

In Figure 3 you can see that I measured the distance between the tranny cutout and the shifter cutout, which came to 3.5in. That 3.5 inches was used to find a relief cut on the sides of the template. To do this I measured 3.5 inches forward of the oval(sheetmetal) shifter cutout and drew a line out to the edges of the template. See Figures 4,5 and 6.

I did not measure how far to go with the relief cuts but I think it was about 4 to 5 inches. You will have to eye ball this one. Sorry. This step really does make bending the metal over the floor tunnel much easier. The template will begin to lay more flush against the sides of the floor tunnel as well.

Step 7) Continue to massage the metal and form it to the floor hump. I ended up using a hammer to mold the metal into the contours of the floor. I will use the clamps shown when I start welding the new sheetmetal onto the floor tunnel. Figure 7, 8.

I think everything came out pretty well fo the most part. The ears at the rear of the template were way out of wack. :wack: See Figure 2. I would design my own ears to better fit the floor tunnel of the early A-body. The next step for me is to weld the new metal over the floor tunnel. Until next time. :salute:

 

[fstfish66]

your doing a fine job,,the more i se how yours is comming,, the more im looking for parts to sell,,to buy a 5 speed

 

[Dodgenut64]

Just wondering do you already have a 4 speed car and switching to a 5 speed? if you had an auto, did you get the auto to manual conversion kit from Kiesler? If you have a manual set up now, what are you gonna do for the hydraulic clutch set up that comes with the TKO 5 speed? Will you be able to modify your 4 speed clutch pedal and stuff?

 

[daves66valiant]

Just wondering do you already have a 4 speed car and switching to a 5 speed? if you had an auto, did you get the auto to manual conversion kit from Kiesler? If you have a manual set up now, what are you gonna do for the hydraulic clutch set up that comes with the TKO 5 speed? Will you be able to modify your 4 speed clutch pedal and stuff?

The 5-speed was originally going into my 66 hardtop valiant which was a 3-on-the-tree not a 4-speed floor shift. There's no big difference between the column auto and the 3 speed column shift kit from Keisler. The floor humps are exactly the same. I am using the hydraulic kit with a lakewood bellhousing. I pirated the clutch pedals from the hardtop, so I didn't need the auto to manual kit from Keisler. The hardtop is basically a parts car for the convertible now. Once I'm finished with the convertible I will be scrapping the hardtop and keeping any parts I may want for future use. I will be parting out some stuff as well.
-Dave

 

[Dodgenut64]

so the clutch pedals from a 4 speed car will hook right up to the TKO stuff? Can you show a picture of how all this hooks up when you get that far, itll be very helpful , thanks.

 

[daves66valiant]

so the clutch pedals from a 4 speed car will hook right up to the TKO stuff? Can you show a picture of how all this hooks up when you get that far, itll be very helpful , thanks.

This thread will be the complete install eventually

 

[fstfish66]

dave,, did you buy a scatter shield? or bell housing from them??? if you have a scatter shield,, did you have keislier modifiy it for the tranny bolt patteren,,?????? and if so could you e mail me a pic of it ?? thanks don [email protected]

 

[daves66valiant]

dave,, did you buy a scatter shield? or bell housing from them??? if you have a scatter shield,, did you have keislier modifiy it for the tranny bolt patteren,,?????? and if so could you e mail me a pic of it ?? thanks don [email protected]

I have the modified Lakewood that I got from Keisler. The picture is on my resto page.
-dave

 

[daves66valiant]

Tapped in the roller pilot bearing and did the RUNOUT inspection on the bellhousing. I've never used a dial indicator before but it was not too hard to figure out. I have a couple of tips on this process. I did not install the pressure plate and clutch disc onto the flywheel. This would provide an uneven attachment surface for a magnetic dial indicator. I found that removing one flywheel bolt made it easier to attach my magnetic dial indicator. I checked the RUNOUT 5-6 times at different positions just because I'm nerotic and I didn't want to make a mistake and void the warranty. The MAX RUNOUT is 0.005". The total RUNOUT on my bellhousing was about 0.013" which means I would need the 0.007 offset dowel pin set. Here are a couple of pictures. I'm stalled on the conversion until I get the dowel pins from Keisler. Once I recheck the RUNOUT with the offset dowel pins I'll put everything together and have it ready for the suspension/engine/tranny cradle.
Roller Bearing

Dial Indicator setup

Inside the Bellhousing

-Dave :headbang:

 

[lilcuda]

Dave,

I think you can get offset dowels from any Mopar Perf dealer, unless there is something special about the ones you're getting from Keisler. Also, I would recommend ditching the cheap non-hardened lockwashers on the flywheel bolts. They have a tendency to crack. Use blue loctite instead.

Lee
1966 Barracuda, 340 4 speed

 

[daves66valiant]

Dave,

I think you can get offset dowels from any Mopar Perf dealer, unless there is something special about the ones you're getting from Keisler. Also, I would recommend ditching the cheap non-hardened lockwashers on the flywheel bolts. They have a tendency to crack. Use blue loctite instead.

Lee
1966 Barracuda, 340 4 speed

You read my mind. I picked up some loctite just a few minutes ago and I got the complete Lakewood dowel pin set from PAW, which was way cheaper than getting them from Keisler. This was a trial setup because I knew there was the possibility of having to pull everything off for the offset dowels. I should call a mopar perdormance dealer and see.The fly wheel bolts came at extra cost from Keisler. Made by Mr. Gasket, might be cheap China crap. Would feel better with some ARPs and their shop is about 5 minutes down the street from me.
-dave

 

[Dodgenut64]

Gotta say, Im a little lost. Ive never messed with hooking up a manual transmission before. What does this require? I thought it was a bit more simpler then this. Need more Innnnnnnnnnnput.

 

[daves66valiant]

Gotta say, Im a little lost. Ive never messed with hooking up a manual transmission before. What does this require? I thought it was a bit more simpler then this. Need more Innnnnnnnnnnput.

Apparently it requires alot of patience and thought with these Keisler 5-speed swaps. I'm just following the directions and posting as I go along. I've been taking my time and it seems to be going okay for me so far. I have not gotten that deep into it yet though. This car will not be your ordinary convertible Valiant by any means when I'm finished. :headbang:

 

[daves66valiant]

Got the floor hump tacked in this evening and was able to spray the foam sealer from underneath the car. My welding really sucks sometimes. Although it's my fault since I got to the point where it was too much of a pain in the *** to wire wheel the old rusted floor to get a nice clean welding surface. This is just a practice run anyways and it was just not happening. I'll be sure to have a super clean welding surface when I do it for real on the convertible.

The best tach welds for me were at the top of the hump near the firewall...no rust or grease up there.

Gooopy stuff. Takes 8 hours to cure, then I can cut and sand the excess, then seam seal and paint the rest tomorrow.

 

[fstfish66]

DAVE... you are doing a great job,,,checking the run out just keeps thinks turning true,,,,what a shame you wil have to do all that cuting and metal fabing again,,but the end result will be great,,and well worth it,,kppe up the good work,, and great pics,,, im intrested to hear ,,about the clutch type,, and when you install the hyd bearing,,,,

 

[daves66valiant]

DAVE... you are doing a great job,,,checking the run out just keeps thinks turning true,,,,what a shame you wil have to do all that cuting and metal fabing again,,but the end result will be great,,and well worth it,,kppe up the good work,, and great pics,,, im intrested to hear ,,about the clutch type,, and when you install the hyd bearing,,,,

Thanks. It's really good practice for me since this is my first resto-mod project. Plus I have the pictures of each step to look back on for reference. Better to find out all the nuances now instead of later.