key on not running draw

[67Dart273]

WHERE IS REDFISH WHEN WE NEED 'im???

Also that vehicle should have the distasterous, ill conceived, and poorly engineered engine harness connector. LOOK for a WHITE connector body towards the rear of the engine. Those are a disaster waiting to happen.......I think it's the only white connector in the engine bay

Page 8-167 of the 73 FSM:

Notice the IGNITION DARK BLUE goes through there as well as the BLACK no12 alternator output

 

[Mattax]

WHERE IS REDFISH WHEN WE NEED 'im???

Also that vehicle should have the distasterous, ill conceived, and poorly engineered engine harness connector. LOOK for a WHITE connector body towards the rear of the engine. Those are a disaster waiting to happen.......I think it's the only white connector in the engine bay

Page 8-167 of the 73 FSM:

Notice the IGNITION DARK BLUE goes through there as well as the BLACK no12 alternator output

View attachment 1715530773

Now got caught the way did, except in reverse.
It's a Lancer! (post 1)
But it has a isolated field alternator and matching VR,
and an HEI ignition, with the ballast resistor replaced with a bar.
(Posts 5 & 6)

but I think there is another thread from yesterday about a '73
I've lost track there's so many that popped up this weekend.

 

[DART66GT]

Back in the garage... With the key on I set the ammeter to 10A. If I remove green terminal and run meter between terminal and ground I get 2.12A if I run it to battery neg. It's 2.3Amps. Does that help? Is that the correct place for the meter?

 

[Mattax]

Here's what was being suggested.

and check the draw through the field, that is jumpered to battery---through the field---your ammeter---and to ground.

while turning the alternator pulley by hand.

Back in the garage... With the key on I set the ammeter to 10A. If I remove green terminal and run meter between terminal and ground I get 2.12A if I run it to battery neg. It's 2.3Amps. Does that help? Is that the correct place for the meter?

Now we got to figure out what you did.
You basically checked the field current but powered though the key instead of using a jumper. That's Ok.

 

[Mattax]

Everything points to the problem being at the regulator or the regulator plug's wiring.
Does your Lancer have an ammeter in the dash?

If so, do the same thing you did in post 1 where you saw the voltage drop from 12.6 V to 11.7 V.
What does the ammeter in the dash show?
It should go from middle to discharge just a little.
Middle is 0, each side is 40 amps. If its more than 5 then there is a short or a big draw.
Then take the triangular connector off the regulator and check the dash meter again.

 

[DART66GT]

I tried key on and off with everything hooked up, I saw no movement on dash ammeter. I tried Amp test again with jumper had about 2.4A I tried spinning alternator by hand in both directions Amps bounced around a little only a couple of tenths.

 

[Mattax]

I saw no movement on dash ammeter.

No movement at all?
But the battery voltage drops, which means there is current flowing out.
and we know the battery is capable of starting the car.
I think its wiring. Current is flowing out, somehow related to the VR, and not going through the ammeter.

I have no other ideas. Maybe the other guys will.
If you want to go over the wiring, take the schematic above and follow the route from the battery to the alternator on your car.
Mark it up (microsoft paint) based on what you actually see, and/or take photos at each item along the way. Or at least the connections in the engine bay. Maybe we'll see something will explain whats happening.

 

[Mattax]

The field current test seems close to specs for a '73 squareback.
Lets confirm that's what it is.
Does it look like this?

Or like this?

Or neither?

 

[DART66GT]

Thanks for all your help. Hopefully Ill get more time this weekend. Would like to get this registered this summer!

 

[DART66GT]

My alternator

 

[RedFish]

Have you looked for a draw/battery drain while switch, dome lamp, everything is off? If you find one, remove the big red wire from that alternator and see if draw goes away. there are a few ways a alternator can short internally.

 

[DART66GT]

The only time I find draw is with the key on and the green field wire hooked up. I've been testing a lot over the last week with key on for extended periods of time with the draw and battery only went from 12.65 to 12.56 with no drain overnight.

 

[Mattax]

Then my only suggestion is follow the green wire and see where it goes.

 

[DART66GT]

Then my only suggestion is follow the green wire and see where it goes.

My thoughts exactly. But it just goes to regulator. May bring alternator to get tested the local shop is pretty good.

 

[Mattax]

My thoughts exactly. But it just goes to regulator. May bring alternator to get tested the local shop is pretty good.

Maybe restating the obvious, but on most 60's mopars the green wire was the power to the rotor. I assume the early cars like your Lancer are that way too.

Whoever converted the car to use the '70 up regulator and alternator could have used whatever colors they wanted, in whatever way they wanted, and easy enough to mix 'em up too. That's why I suspect that, or some insulation has rubbed off.
Take the connectors off the regulator and alternator fields. Check for continuity from the ignition run (ballast resistor is usually an easy place to access) to make sure the positions on the connectors are correct.

Insulation rubbing off is another issue sometimes. Wires get pinched or move around and chafe. I've come around to following the factory routing as much as possible and taping or zip tying the additional wire to the existing harness.

 

[Mattax]

Also still strange that the ammeter didn't move while the battery voltage dropped. Its always possible the ammeter movement is damaged, but again worth figuring out. Flip the headlights on with the engine off. You can do it with key off so green wire issue out of the picture. The ammeter should move noticibley toward discharge. About 9 amps give or take depending on what headlights are installed. The battery voltage should drop a little. Measure how much.
That will (a) provide a comaprison for the voltage drop seen when the green wire is connected with key in run.
(b) prove whetehr the ammeter is working (whether its at fault or been rewired can deal with afterword).

 

[DART66GT]

The ammeter moved with lights on(I should have thought of that) about the thickness of the needle, maybe a needle and a half toward discharge. Battery went from 12.61 to 12.36. The alternator came with car. Car was completely disassembled when I got it. I wired in new VR using wires from old VR continuity test on green wire was good.

 

[Mattax]

continuity test on green wire was good.

Do you mean continuity between the igntion run (wires J2, J2A) and the green wire as drawn below?

What I'm trying to say or confirm is this. whenthe connectors are removed the green wire should not have continuity to the ignition run wires.
The position in the triangular connector is the key.
Upper part of the triangle should connect to the ignition or J wires only.
The terminal in the acute corner should only connect to the single wire which goes on the alternator field terminal.

I hope that is clear. And maybe you have this all covered. It's hard on this side of the screen to know.

 

[DART66GT]

With all connectors off green wire had continuity from connector (VR) to connector (Field) Hope that makes sense.

 

[Mattax]

With all connectors off green wire had continuity from connector (VR) to connector (Field) Hope that makes sense.

Yes it does.
And it should have no continuty to the terminal marked Run.
The one marked Run should have continuity to the ballast resistor connection, as wel las the other field terminal connector.

 

[67Dart273]

Also from what I've read here it appears you checked field draw using the factory blue for a power source. That is NOT what I suggested, and I thought I explained why. You want to measure that with one field jumpered direct to battery. This eliminates any drop/ problems in the factory wiring, and if the field has a partial short, will help to show it up

If the factory wiring has a voltage drop problem, and many? most? do, then using ANY of the factory wiring to check field draw can help hide a problem

Then, after you determine the field is OK, you can if you wish, hook it all up and see what the drop looks like through the factory harness.

The only way to tell if you have a harness drop problem, vs some component drawing too much current, is to isolate everthing on the circuit, and check the draw of each device one by one. You have to use your head as to 'what' as say, the choke if used, I'm not sure there IS a spec for that or for the ignition system.

 

[DART66GT]

I did the first test using factory blue wire. Then if you read later I did it again using the jumper as you suggested. hopefully this weekend Ill have more time to continue testing.

 

[DART66GT]

Had my alternator tested it puts out 40 amps. Works great. I tried again and used a jumper wire to take the place of the green wire. Same result.