LA small block,Do you put an oil passage in your head stud?

What do you do for oiling to rockers with head studs

  • Nothing run them dry

    Votes: 3 33.3%

  • Sprayers in covers

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Open the passage

    Votes: 4 44.4%

  • Modify the head stud

    Votes: 2 22.2%
  • Total voters
    9
  • Poll closed .
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Oldmanmopar said:
How would the oil go up around the stud to get to the hole in the head. Many did different things over the years to get oil to the rocker shafts on the LA's.

I remember someone years back ran a line to the shaft. Worked great until the line cracked off. There have been so many trying to fix this problem over the years . Some worked and some didn't. Some were only able to be done at a great expense with special parts.

Indy and T&D told us we had to run sprayers.

The method I just shown you is what we were shown years back by a very popular small block mopar engine builder. It works great. It can only be done as per build because the stud needs to be indexed in the block when seated. So this prevented an Item that could me made and sold. No money to be made ? Why sell the idea if you'll lose money on parts you can sell.

This fix is just something inexpensive you can do when building your engine.
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It's been years since I've had any small block heads, so I didn't remember how the hole was routed. That's why I asked.
 
ch1ll said:
Omm, how much do you think that weakens the stud?, and do you torque that stud/nut down differently?
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Torqued to the same spec. When these studs fail it is usually stretched at the thread. That has less material then the modified area of the shaft.
I knew when posting this there would be engineers coming out of the wood work. Listen to me, You can all do what ever you want. I really don't care. My motor is 13.5-1 seen RPM's to over 9000. I am using the same studs for the third time.
We do this to every LA that is studded in our machine shop. No issues at all and great oiling.

Yes there are times with a high volume pump you need to restrict oil passages . But if there is no oil to restrict why bother. We do not use a m72hv pump on all engines. Not needed and they put more stress on the bronze pump gear.
This is the way we do it. You all can do what ever you want.
 
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cookietruck said:
i was curious about this too, quick google search and i found a good photo, see the third photo from top. looks like the passage turns from the deck into the head bolt and i guess another angled passage up top that send the oil to the rocker stand...

[FOR SALE] - Mopar 360 J-Heads, with 2.02" Intake Valves - $700
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They oil like a big block except the big block gets it oil off the number 4 cam bearing to both sides. The small block gets oil to the shaft on the drivers side from the number 2 cam bearing and the passenger side from the number 4 bearing.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
How would the oil go up around the stud to get to the hole in the head. Many did different things over the years to get oil to the rocker shafts on the LA's.

I remember someone years back ran a line to the shaft. Worked great until the line cracked off. There have been so many trying to fix this problem over the years . Some worked and some didn't. Some were only able to be done at a great expense with special parts.

Indy and T&D told us we had to run sprayers.

The method I just shown you is what we were shown years back by a very popular small block mopar engine builder. It works great. It can only be done as per build because the stud needs to be indexed in the block when seated. So this prevented an Item that could me made and sold. No money to be made ? Why sell the idea if you'll lose money on parts you can sell.

This fix is just something inexpensive you can do when building your engine.
Click to expand...



studs are not supposed to be SEATED. Screw them in till bottomed then back stud out some.
 
Too complicated for the common man. Not everyone has all that specialized machinery just laying around at their disposal.but if you have access great. Again, lets have some perspective! 9000 rpm, yeah everybody here is spinning their engines to that. No. And if it were something someone felt they needed to do, Why spend time indexing a stud and buying a ball mill and other special tooling, or even simply grinding or using a file what have you, or traipsing around trying to find a machine shop to modify 2 studs? Just use a Dremel or whatever and a small bit and grind a channel between the two oil ports within the head stud holes. Yeah, that’s what I’d do. And there ain’t no concerns of breaking through into water yadda yadda yadda. Better than hacking studs. So easy a.........
 
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pittsburghracer said:
All I want to know now is how fast is this thing. Sounds like a monster. Over 9000 rpm!!!
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We were shifting it a 8000 but I have seen the recall at 9300 max a couple times after some serious burnouts. The reason for bottoming the stud with your fingers is so when you put the nut on it stays indexed and keeps the groove lined up.
As per ARP instructions is if the stud goes in the hole to far and the nut doesn't get full engagement on the threads. They want you to drop a ball bearing in the hole and bottom it on a bearing. So turning the stud out? I don't know. But I will ask them.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
We were shifting it a 8000 but I have seen the recall at 9300 max a couple times after some serious burnouts. The reason for bottoming the stud with your fingers is so when you put the nut on it stays indexed and keeps the groove lined up.
As per ARP instructions is if the stud goes in the hole to far and the nut doesn't get full engagement on the threads. They want you to drop a ball bearing in the hole and bottom it on a bearing. So turning the stud out? I don't know. But I will ask them.
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so again please tell us how fast this monster is. I gotta know.
 
12many said:
Too complicated for the common man. Not everyone has all that specialized machinery just laying around at their disposal.but if you have access great. Again, lets have some perspective! 9000 rpm, yeah everybody here is spinning their engines to that. No. And if it were something someone felt they needed to do, Why spend time indexing a stud and buying a ball mill and other special tooling, or even simply grinding or using a file what have you, or traipsing around trying to find a machine shop to modify 2 studs? Just use a Dremel or whatever and a small bit and grind a channel between the two oil ports within the head stud holes. Yeah, that’s what I’d do. And there ain’t no concerns of breaking through into water yadda yadda yadda. Better than hacking studs. So easy a.........
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How complicated is it to bottom two studs. Don't mix them up and take them to a machine shop or send them and have them grooved with a ball mill after you mark them. The reason for the ball mill is for the smooth transition.
You could use a hammer and chisel for all I care. Or don't do it at all? You my friend can never take advise without criticism. That is just the way you are . Some on this site will see the logic. And some because they didn't do theirs or didn't think of it on their own will find an issue.

I am only giving advise for those who want to use it. I should have just let the pole run out and see what your answers were.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
How complicated is it to bottom two studs. Don't mix them up and take them to a machine shop or send them and have them grooved with a ball mill after you mark them. The reason for the ball mill is for the smooth transition.
You could use a hammer and chisel for all I care. Or don't do it at all? You my friend can never take advise without criticism. That is just the way you are . Some on this site will see the logic. And some because they didn't do theirs or didn't think of it on their own will find an issue.

I am only giving advise for those who want to use it. I should have just let the pole run out and see what your answers were.
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Nope. Advice in this case isn’t needed. As I mentioned earlier, I’ve got plenty of oil to the top end. I’m not alone.
Anyway, you are a racer (or former, immersed in it, or?) with access to all the tools to perform something that not everybody needs. You posted it in the small block forum where all levels of ability, performance levels etc visit. Not everyone is a racer, an engine builder, has a shop full of equipment. Yes there are quite a few racers or racer minded, builders here and they all know your mo, but maybe you should be more specific about performance levels this might apply to. That would be my unsolicited advice to you.
But, You only stipulated well into the thread that your example is a 13:1 cr engine that you spin to 9000rpm. You really think everyone needs to do what your talking about? And it’s incumbent upon the reader to be able to know just what level of performance you’re talking about? Come on. You don’t differentiate.
Not everyone needs to do what you’re posting about.
Many use studs for various reasons. Again, You come off like everyone needs to do this mod. Your poll doesn’t even have an option for “don’t need it, I’m good” or to that effect. You didn’t because you obviously think it needs to be done. It kinda shows a one track mind to me. I like perspective, it’s needed in this case.....IMO:)
.
 
12many said:
Nope. Advice in this case isn’t needed. As I mentioned earlier, I’ve got plenty of oil to the top end. I’m not alone.
Anyway, you are a racer (or former, immersed in it, or?) with access to all the tools to perform something that not everybody needs. You posted it in the small block forum where all levels of ability, performance levels etc visit. Not everyone is a racer, an engine builder, has a shop full of equipment. Yes there are quite a few racers or racer minded, builders here and they all know your mo, but maybe you should be more specific about performance levels this might apply to. That would be my unsolicited advice to you.
But, You only stipulated well into the thread that your example is a 13:1 cr engine that you spin to 9000rpm. You really think everyone needs to do what your talking about? And it’s incumbent upon the reader to be able to know just what level of performance you’re talking about? Come on. You don’t differentiate.
Not everyone needs to do what you’re posting about.
Many use studs for various reasons. Again, You come off like everyone needs to do this mod. Your poll doesn’t even have an option for “don’t need it, I’m good” or to that effect. You didn’t because you obviously think it needs to be done. It kinda shows a one track mind to me. I like perspective, it’s needed in this case.....IMO:)
.
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I’ve turned my junk 8k plus and I never ever did that to a stud. It doesn’t need it.

As I posted, you are feeding the leaks at the rockers and the oil that gets to the adjusters. I suppose if you have .050 clearance between the rockers and .008 clearance on the shaft you might have an issue with getting oil past the studs.

I have never seen it.
 
He posts stuff like this in my opinion to basically say "look at me" or actually, look at my son, the worlds BEST engine builder. It's all for attention.
 
You can buy rockers that take oil from up through the pushrod and oil the rocker shaft with that pushrod supplied oil. When you use that system, you block off the oil that comes past that stud anyway.
If I were spinning it to 9000, that's the system I'd be using in the first place.
 
replicaracer43 said:
He posts stuff like this in my opinion to basically say "look at me" or actually, look at my son, the worlds BEST engine builder. It's all for attention.
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My son nor I did this to these studs. They were done buy a well known engine shop. We only copied what he showed us on our Engine. We didn't do the original build on the 416. But you must either be jealous or on drugs Why would say that ? I am only trying to help those that want to know. If you don't agree Keep it to yourself.
Why are some of you just total *** holes .

The 416 indy R-3 made 829@7900 at the crank . and we found some little things wrong after 8 yrs. that we are correcting. HTA built it, Ray Barton Funded it

The 428 Batten X-block made 593@7200 @ the crank. That engine from Shady Dell ate itself .

We build cars just like you all do. And we learn from others that teach us things we didn't know all the time. Some of you all will never learn anything because you are all wrapped up in your own ego trip.

I have Time slips. But then you will know. And what fun will that be if we ever meet up in Pa.

I haven't seen any one mention anything to correct the oiling problem that would be close to sensible. Compared to what Dave taught us. Teach me .
 
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Oldmanmopar said:
My son nor I did this to these studs. They were done buy a well known engine shop. We only copied what he showed us on our Engine. We didn't do the original build on the 416. But you must either be jealous or on drugs Why would say that ? I am only trying to help those that want to know. If you don't agree Keep it to yourself.
Why are some of you just total *** holes .

The 416 indy R-3 made 829@7900 at the crank . and we found some little things wrong after 8 yrs. that we are correcting.

The 428 Batten X-block made 593@7200 @ the crank. That engine from Shady Dell ate itself .

We build cars just like you all do. And we learn from others that teach us things we didn't know all the time. Some of you all will never learn anything because you are all wrapped up in your own ego trip.

I have Time slips. But then you will know. And what fun will that be if we ever meet up in Pa.

I haven't seen any one mention anything to correct the oiling problem that would be close to sensible. Compared to what Dave taught us. Teach me .
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sounds like a nice build. Have fun with it. If we meet up it sounds like I will get a head start. I think I’m only a shade over 400 horsepower.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
The 428 Batten X-block made 593@7200 @ the crank. That engine from Shady Dell ate itself .
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LOL, Well... I worked on an engine from that place, the stud you talk about was modified with what looked like an angle grinder..Now if you keep the stud cool enough, you can grind it that way, but it wasn't a very nice job.. LOL.. That engine was a mess as well...
 
Bakerlite said:
You can buy rockers that take oil from up through the pushrod and oil the rocker shaft with that pushrod supplied oil. When you use that system, you block off the oil that comes past that stud anyway.
If I were spinning it to 9000, that's the system I'd be using in the first place.
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We did have oil through push rods and gulled every one. Push rod angle on and LA is terrible. We are going to offset lifters to help fix that. All the GMs he builds have oil through . We were spinning it to 7800 -8000 every shift . I said it has seen 9300 on the recall . Never with Steve driving only when I played with it.
 
I dug the dyno sheets out for the 428.

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100_0167.JPG
 
Bakerlite said:
LOL, Well... I worked on an engine from that place, the stud you talk about was modified with what looked like an angle grinder..Now if you keep the stud cool enough, you can grind it that way, but it wasn't a very nice job.. LOL.. That engine was a mess as well...
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Shady dell did not build our 416 or do the studs. I wouldn't let that guy tighten the chain on my Bicycle. He was the biggest rip off shop we ever went to. He is the reason my son started building our own engines. I originally went there because he was the only one with Batten head parts. and talked us into building the 428. He stuck a wire brush up our *** with no lube. stole every part we took to him.
Dave at HTA built our 416 and hired my son . Dave taught my son a lot. Dave, Ray Barton and others . and now he is doing work for them.
 
Oldmanmopar said:
Shady dell did not build our 416 or do the studs. I wouldn't let that guy tighten the chain on my Bicycle. He was the biggest rip off shop we ever went to. He is the reason my son started building our own engines. I originally went there because he was the only one with Batten head parts. and talked us into building the 428. He stuck a wire brush up our *** with no lube. stole every part we took to him.
Dave at HTA built our 416 and hired my son . Dave taught my son a lot. Dave, Ray Barton and others . and now he is doing work for them.
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I will DEFINITELY not disagree with your assessment of shady dell....I have a "resto 340" r3 based 440 cube smallblock he built in my shop currently, and it is hacked up!
 
Oldmanmopar said:
Shady dell did not build our 416 or do the studs. I wouldn't let that guy tighten the chain on my Bicycle. He was the biggest rip off shop we ever went to. He is the reason my son started building our own engines. I originally went there because he was the only one with Batten head parts. and talked us into building the 428. He stuck a wire brush up our *** with no lube. stole every part we took to him.
Dave at HTA built our 416 and hired my son . Dave taught my son a lot. Dave, Ray Barton and others . and now he is doing work for them.
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I for one want to thank you for this post and the information within. It sounds like a very professional way to address top end oiling issues when using studs thank you.
 
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