LEDs?

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Harrison

Harrison

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Waterloo, SC
I was wondering if anyone had tried to custom make LED replacements for some lights, like the reverse lights or brake lights. Reason I'm asking is because I'm contemplating doing it, seeing as my 63 Dart is missing the pigtails for the reverse lights, and they are seemingly impossible to find.
 
Oh yeah, that place is definitely going to be where I get my LEDs from. But I meant the pigtails were impossible to find, not the LEDs :p I'm guessing no one has replaced them with LEDs before?
 
Yes, I have LED tail lights in my '67 Barracuda, the're excellent, much brighter than the old 1157's,kits come with all hardware necessary for installion. Been using them for 2 years without problem-great investment!(many different kits available)
 
Got any pictures?

I wouldn't use a kit, though it'd be interesting to see how they got them to stay.
 
There are critical safety performance issues involved with a car's brake/tail/turn lights; they need to work in specific ways to do their job effectively and keep you safe on the road. Just looking at a homemade brake light and saying "Yup, looks nice and bright" isn't good enough. Before you spend much money or time on this, see here and here and (more technical stuff) here. You might also want to look here.
 
I have made a third brake light that is arched and spans the entire width of the rear window.This should alleviate the viewing angle problem. and I am using two strips of leds tucked into the grill as front turn signals. That should take care of the minimum brightness problem.
Andrew

turn signal 2.jpg


package tray #8.jpg
 
megajoltman said:
Wow ClearCorners sure has some nice stuff.
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They soytenly do. Spendy, in accord with the amount of engineering and the quality of parts that goes into their stuff to make it work safely and look schweet.

ssdan, curious what's your background ?
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I'm an automotive lighting engineer and consultant, why do you ask?
redbeard.gif
 
blue missile said:
I have made a third brake light that is arched and spans the entire width of the rear window.This should alleviate the viewing angle problem.
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It very well might. And it might meet the minimum intensity requirements at the various angles, too -- the 3rd brake light function isn't particularly demanding in terms of intensity.

I am using two strips of leds tucked into the grill as front turn signals. That should take care of the minimum brightness problem.
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The front turn signal function is quite demanding in terms of intensity, because of its proximity to the headlamps. That's why we saw factory LED 3rd brake lights appearing 20 years ago, factory LED brake and rear turn signal lights appearing about 10 years ago, and we're only just now beginning to see many LED front turn signals; it's a difficult function to meet. Your two strips of LEDs don't look like they meet the minimum-lit-area requirement and almost certainly do not meet the minimum-intensity requirements.

Again, please keep in mind that these aren't toys or cosmetic devices we're talking about -- they're safety equipment. They really need to work properly, not just look "I guess they should be good enough".
 
slantsixdan said:
They soytenly do. Spendy, in accord with the amount of engineering and the quality of parts that goes into their stuff to make it work safely and look schweet.



I'm an automotive lighting engineer and consultant, why do you ask?
redbeard.gif
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Well because you seem to be full of hot air.















Joking:toothy10:

You gave a very well written, clear, concise,informative, detailed description of the "LED"

I was thinking to myself this guy has to be an Engineer or Consultant :read2:

In my "work life" I have to write detailed reports, technical documentation, contracts and scopes of work.

So on the net I get lazy and throw out correct spelling, grammar and use smilies instead :-D
 
megajoltman said:
Well because you seem to be full of hot air.
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Aw, that's just 'cause it was chili with beans for dinner tonight. (Er…wait, no, that's not exactly "air", is it…)

You gave a very well written, clear, concise,informative, detailed description
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Thanks, I try! I should've mentioned that there are safe and effective (and inexpensive) ways of doing good working LED conversions. There aren't many LED front turn signals in the truck/bus 2"×6" oblong format, but there are these ones and they are not only bright enough for turn signal service, but also for effective DRL operation, and they're cheap. They also happen to be almost exactly the right size and shape for direct glue-in installation in my '73 Dart in place of the original not-very-bright front turn signals. I'll have to shave about 1/16" off a small bar of plastic at each end of each turn signal cutout in the grille, is all. There are other good, safety-approved ready-made LED lights that can be adapted with various degrees of cleverness.
 
slant six,
I notice you are based in Canada. by what standard are making your judgments?
I happen to live in Texas and I do have a copy of the transportation code in my tech docs for reference.
So here it is:There is NO Specific candle power requirement, nor is there a square inch requirement, only that the front turn signals be visible at 300 feet in the daylight (section 547.324) the picture I posted is taken during the day and they happen to be more than sufficient to meet the requirements.OH by the way in all of your expertise you did not pick up on the act that the front signals were red, which is specifically prohibited by the Texas code. They will be amber when Im done.
Im willing to place a LARGE wager that when I finish the car, it will pass the state required inspection without any problems.
Andrew
 
blue missile said:
slant six,
I notice you are based in Canada. by what standard are making your judgments?
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By the US + Canadian (substantially identical) and internationalized European ECE standards that govern the design and safety performance of car lighting equipment all over the world. Most state vehicle codes are hideously outdated messes full of language not applicable to lighting devices made in the last four or five decades (or more), and not even slightly adequate to assure safety; compliance with state codes only means the car's equipment is legal, not that it is necessarily adequately safe.

I happen to live in Texas
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Texas is one of the states that has a vehicle equipment code that is at least partially reasonably coherent. The TX vehicle inspection manual (PDF) says in section 15.10 "Any lighting device, lens and/or reflector used on a vehicle must meet standards adopted by the Texas Department of Public Safety for that particular use," and section 20.29(5)c says to reject turn signals that are "not of a type meeting Department standards" (the same language is repeated in the sections for other lights…brake lights, etc.). The phrases "Department standards" and "standards adopted by the Texas Department of Public Safety" refer to Texas law requirement for all lighting devices to comply with US Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 108, which specifies in detail all aspects of the design, construction, and performance of all automotive lights and reflective devices. The illuminated area requirements, intensity requirements, color requirements, etc. that you aren't finding in the TX code itself aren't there because the TX code refers to the Federal regulation, which does contain all those requirements.

OH by the way in all of your expertise you did not pick up on the act that the front signals were red, which is specifically prohibited by the Texas code.
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Yeah, I did, just didn't squawk about it. I figured either your camera's color rendering of lit lights was about average (tough to discern red vs. amber) or you were playin' around with lighting setups and hadn't yet finalized.

Im willing to place a LARGE wager that when I finish the car, it will pass the state required inspection without any problems
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A wager? That's silly. We're talking about whether your car is legal (no) and safe (no), not whether you can manage to get it past inspection one way or another (no, if the inspector follows the manual).
 
This is Cool stuff! Lighting is one area that I haven't looked into much. Where can you get a list of requirements for this kind of stuff? Or is it more like a book than a list?

Thanks!
 
bjkadron said:
This is Cool stuff! Lighting is one area that I haven't looked into much. Where can you get a list of requirements for this kind of stuff? Or is it more like a book than a list?
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If it were all bound up in one, it would be a very thick book. It's a highly technical subject. You can get a very good start by reading the following Wikipedia articles and following the references and external links they each contain:

Automotive lighting
Headlamp
Daytime running lamp
FMVSS 108
ECE Regulations
 
SS
I love to argue law.
Prior to Nov of '84 the standard which applies is S5.1.1.26(a), after that it is SEA J588, as per the DOT code document 49 C.F.R. Section 571.108. Acording to S5.1.1.26 there is NO STANDARD FOR FRONT TURN SIGNALS.
Also J1395 does not apply as it is also adopted after Nov 84 and applies only to 'heavy duty lighting requirements.
If I were to apply the Nov 84 standard, the square inch requirement is met.
Each individual light assembly is 3.4sqin.
Andrew
 
blue missile said:
SS
I love to argue law.
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I can see that, but I'm not sure there's much point in correcting your latest misunderstandings of the regulations that apply to turn signals. I did that last time you made incorrect assertions about laws and regulations, and I provided extensive refs to the correct documents; the grownup thing would have been for you to say "Oh. Thanks for the pointer", but you seem more intent on bickering being "right" than on getting the point: your homemade turn signals are not safe or effective, and that would be the case even if they were legal, which they are not. I'm not interested in a pissing contest with someone who's made up his mind and doesn't want to be confused with pesky facts. Just please remember that the consequences of your inadequate homemade turn signals may include injury to yourself and/or others and damage to property such as your car. If you're OK with that, your priorities are strange and more than a little selfish.

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For those keeping track at home out there in Televisionland, the section of FMVSS108 referred to by blue missile reads as follows:

S5.1.1.26 On a motor vehicle whose overall width is less than 80 inches:

(a) The functional lighted lens area of a single compartment stop lamp, and a single compartment rear turn signal lamp, shall be not less than 50 square centimeters.

It is one of many design and performance requirements contained in FMVSS 108, but it is not one of the ones that applies to front turn signals, and it is not date-limited. FMVSS 108 is a long and rather complex document, and it does not lend itself well to selective quoting by those who do not understand it. Fact is, all turn signals, front and rear, must conform to SAE J588. The currently-referenced version is NOV84; prior to that it was a substantially identical earlier version -- the 1984 update added some options for international harmonization, but did not significantly change the basic requirements in terms of placement, lit area, intensity, etc. There is no "git outta jail free" card simply because a car was built before the currently-referenced version of SAE J588 was written.
 
This isnt a pissing match,
But your self righteous attitude, that I cant understand the law or regulations, is rather pissy.
As it happens I am sitting here looking at a 1946 Hudson super six that in no way complies with any of those signaling regulations and is still VERY LEGAL to drive on the road!!!!!!!!! EVEN in California.
Its called being grandfathered in and it's a LEGAL term.
There are even cars with only ONE tail light, and they have a BLUE glass lens.
They also are legal to drive on the road, because they are grandfathered in.
So based on the 50 sq cc rule I will make the LED strips 10.5" long instead of 9" long and it will comply with that requirement.
I think that you perhaps need to understand that the people that frequent this site want to do things for themselves, and are very creative. TRhey are also very nice and perhaps offering a solution to a problem would go alot further than JUST quoting the law to them.
Just my .02
Andrew
 
Dfnsmn34 Now that's funny! Guy's there are two ways we can look at this argument. With the left eye or the right eye! You both have a point! There is no sense in arguing over lighting as it defeats the purpose of the original question. Which at this point I have forgotton!

To each his own!

Now shake hands and move on...

John D. Beckerley
 
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