LSx Valiant Build. Take a look inside...

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I can't complain. All joking aside, the members here on FABO really haven't given me any grief. A little ribbing from time to time, but nothing more.

It probably helps that I'm redeeming myself by doing an all Chrysler build with my father and son. Lol
 
I can't lie. I tried talking my son into an LS swap, lol.

But he told me, "No dad. Your cars cool and all, but I'm keeping a mopar engine in my car".

Lol. Fair enough son, fair enough
 
I'm in the middle of a LS build. The last thing I would do is post it on this site. Fabricating my own suspension, mounts, tunnel, ect would be viewed as the easy way out here.

I've learned that the logical thing to do is to sink $10-$15k into a time bomb that is based on a paper mache block with a goofy valve train and poor oiling system so I can pop the hood and show off my cool Mopar valve covers.

People can hate all they want. I plan on racking up miles and smiles, not racking up post counts.
 
I like looking at the LS swaps. some really nice work. Me i'm old skool, i like restos and sleepers. i have a need to have my stuff appear stock. I'm sticking with a 360 dressed up as a 273.

Thats one sweet 63 val. If i had one like it i'd enjoy the heck out of it. Its hot rod magazine quality, and way better done up than rotting away somewhere.
 
Pascamp said:
I've learned that the logical thing to do is to sink $10-$15k into a time bomb that is based on a paper mache block with a goofy valve train and poor oiling system so I can pop the hood and show off my cool Mopar valve covers.
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No one in here said it was logical to drop tons of cash on a legacy powerplant anymore than it's logical for you to fab up the front half of your car to drop in an otherwise inexpensive powerplant. It's a choice...may not be the choice you want to pursue, although I believe characterizing any mopar engine, LA, B/RB, or hemi as a paper mache block with a goofy valvetrain and poor oiling system isn't exactly deserved considering they're 60 year old designs, again it's your choice. I would tend to agree with the assessment of using an LS in just about any platform for the simple reason that they're everywhere and parts to adapt them exist in abundance.

Now do I have respect for the engineering that went into the LS platform engines? Absolutely--when you exit the highway of any brand loyalty, it's probably the most evolved pushrod engine ever to be available for mass production and purchase. GM engineers outdid themselves and it's amazing the amount of hp/ci that can be derived from modest improvements and upgrades coupled with reduced tailpipe emissions, increased longevity, better NVH mitigation etc etc etc compared to any pushrod engine-to include GM's own legacy offerings. But I would also toss in there, they had the advent of 3D computer modeling, vastly improved manufacturing techniques, better metallurgy, and 70+ years of understanding what not to do within a pushrod engine before they ever made a sandcast, poured a block, or machined one single component.

So, it's easy to fling turds at what can be seen as an archaic design, and it's easier still to pass up said old design for a new one that comes in a tighter package, is distinctly lighter, can be directly bolted up to both old and new transmissions, has a near limitless aftermarket that's not only cranking out good parts in full swing, but bringing forth new and/or improved components to the market every day to include internals, heads, induction, exhaust, and custom services all competing for your business, AND the factory is still churning them out for about the same price as dog food.

I have zero issue with this--hot rodders for over half a century have chosen to use readily available inexpensive and easily modified GM corporate engines in their varied choice of body...it's only natural that trend will continue especially since engines like the 5.3 and 6.0 are so cheap.

So, build your engine, fab your suspension, and by all means--post it on here. People who truly appreciate hot rodding at its core will dig it; I know I would. If you're actually concerned about any non-constructive criticism from a web forum, well...lighten up Francis.

Cheers--build your car, post pics--or it didn't happen.
 
Way on target Txstang84 Especially the part about knocking older mopar engine designs compared to the LS engines. The older small block , big block, and Hemi mopar engines were the best designs of their time, just like the flat head V8 ford was the standard everyone was judged by until the "new" overhead valve chevy V8 came out in 1955. Hot rodders still build flathead fords today even though they are not cutting edge anymore. Some are still competitive and creating new records on the salt flats even today. Build what you like, just remember one thing, somebody will eventually design a better mousetrap that will make the LS end up like the flathead was compared to chevys OHV V8 in 1955. Remember back in the day hot rodders put the flathead in everything. It was the swap engine of choice.

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Exactly--when the flatty debuted in 1932, it was by definition revolutionary. Other V8s existed for several years (to include offerings from Cadillac and Lincoln), that wasn't the important part; the flatty was the first V8 ever to be cast as a monolithic block and made readily available to the public for a modest price. Every other one prior to that was cast as a simple crankcase then line workers installed individual cylinders. Then when Chevrolet introduced their first small block OHV engine, just like 23 years before, it was hailed as revolutionary because it simplified manufacturing processes and was cheaply produced for the masses, not just for upper end vehicles.
 
Pic above is of the millennial flathead. It has a turbo supercharger, twin ignitions with MSD, fuel injection. All modern stuff. About the pinnacle of flathead hot rodding.

People also forget that zora arkus duntov, the father of the corvette also designed and made Ardun OHV Hemi heads as speed parts for the flattie way before working for Chevrolet.
 
That's awesome--I'd totally forgotten about those experimental pieces. I googled it just for grins and the first article I clicked on said the originals were fraught with issues, but eventually were recast with better alloy, valvetrain issues fixed, and were sold on limited basis (probably at a hefty cost). But archaic as those designs are, they're still cool to think about how people made more power back in the day.
 
Honestly I would've liked to keep a Mopar engine in it, but I'm looking for 600hp naturally aspirated with daily driver reliability. I just can't justify $10K+ on a la/b/rb and hope I get lucky as far as longevity goes. Sure a gen2 hemi would be nice, but the prices are ridiculous. And as far as gen3's go... I have never has so many problems with any engine in my life.

I would love to put a 470 with trick flows in it, but I know that block will probably fail. Some people get lucky but I've seen it too many times with Mopar blocks over 600hp. Even with fancy main caps, girdles, and hard block it ends in tears often.
 
Pascamp said:
Honestly I would've liked to keep a Mopar engine in it, but I'm looking for 600hp naturally aspirated with daily driver reliability. I just can't justify $10K+ on a la/b/rb and hope I get lucky as far as longevity goes. Sure a gen2 hemi would be nice, but the prices are ridiculous. And as far as gen3's go... I have never has so many problems with any engine in my life.

I would love to put a 470 with trick flows in it, but I know that block will probably fail. Some people get lucky but I've seen it too many times with Mopar blocks over 600hp. Even with fancy main caps, girdles, and hard block it ends in tears often.
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That was honestly my biggest reason for swapping my car to the LS platform. It's been a tube chassis car since the late 90s, and I realized that with engine plates I could drop in Anything I could imagine.

I love small and big block chryslers. I had a slant six in the car 20 years ago that ran 13.80s. I had a 360 in it that ran 11.90s.

My LS runs 10.80s, and I have a grand total of $2500 carb to pan. For me it was dollars and sense. And the idea of learning about a completely new engine platform. That was exciting and put the fun back into it.
 
The hottest LS swap from what i understand is dropping one of these in a nissan S-15 chassis, better known as a 240 SX or Silvia in Japan. Its RWD and light weight. An all aluninum LS6 with stick shift in a 240 SX is insane.
 
Gen 3 hemis are pretty bad too. Dont think your getting a deal buying a truck long block w accessories , because everything on the front wont fit in a passenger car, and needs to be swapped out. Best deal is to get one out of a charger, magnum, 300 , or challenger that someone center punched a phone pole with.
 
moparmat2000 said:
The hottest LS swap from what i understand is dropping one of these in a nissan S-15 chassis, better known as a 240 SX or Silvia in Japan. Its RWD and light weight. An all aluninum LS6 with stick shift in a 240 SX is insane.
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Might wanna keep your eyes peeled...one of the kids I know on base recently blew up the 3.5L V6 in his 350Z...he's going LS too...not sure when or to what extent.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Gen 3 hemis are pretty bad too. Dont think your getting a deal buying a truck long block w accessories , because everything on the front wont fit in a passenger car, and needs to be swapped out. Best deal is to get one out of a charger, magnum, 300 , or challenger that someone center punched a phone pole with.
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Yeah, the second/salvage market for parts often overcharge for their wares...kinda sickening. I thought about dropping a used 5.7 in my Dad's ramcharger, but as it sits right now, it'll probably get my cobbled up 383/727, which will also require some work to install.
 
You don't want to do the LS swap....to much space under the hood.

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magnumdust said:
So add a turbo. Maybe a pair of them.
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Agreed, looks like a whole lotta room to fit up some tubing and a pair of huffers. Will have to keep an eye out for the LS350Z car.

In the gen 3 hemi swap there is an aftermarket swap part called a chip killr. Its a new timing cover that eliminates the crank and cam sensors, and adds a cam driven distributor geared in place of the cam sensors shutter wheel. That along with a carbureted intake manifold and you can completely dump the electronics on a 3rd gen hemi.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Agreed, looks like a whole lotta room to fit up some tubing and a pair of huffers. Will have to keep an eye out for the LS350Z car.

In the gen 3 hemi swap there is an aftermarket swap part called a chip killr. Its a new timing cover that eliminates the crank and cam sensors, and adds a cam driven distributor geared in place of the cam sensors shutter wheel. That along with a carbureted intake manifold and you can completely dump the electronics on a 3rd gen hemi.
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But that kind of defeats the purpose of a modern engine swap. Plus i'd bet that timing cover & needed parts costs more than the MSD hemi ignition box.

They have the same options for the LS and I don't get it. At that point you might as well stick with a run of the mill small block(or whatever you started with)
 
magnumdust said:
But that kind of defeats the purpose of a modern engine swap. Plus i'd bet that timing cover & needed parts costs more than the MSD hemi ignition box.

They have the same options for the LS and I don't get it. At that point you might as well stick with a run of the mill small block(or whatever you started with)
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Not really though, people dropped carbs on top of vortec 350s to get better power than with the older versions of the same engine...same goes for straight J heads vs magnums...old style 289 heads vs GT-40//40P heads...now you bring in the G3 hemis, there's nothing about the engine that isn't better designed than the engines they replaced. The block is better...the heads to include the valvetrain are light years better...the induction (even if you go with a carbed intake) is better, the exhaust components available to include the stock manifolds are better, and they bolt right up to legacy transmissions and engine mounts are available now. Whatever money you invest in the intake/ignition (which is programmable, so you don't have to fiddle with springs weights or vacuum cans), will be money you don't have to invest rebuilding the bottom end if you picked up, say a 50K mile longblock, from the junkyard.

So, if what you started with is a clapped out 360, you're going to spend how ever many hundreds of dollars getting new pistons, having it balanced, machined, heads rebuilt, whatever. The population of low mile low cost good condition LAs is drastically dwindling for most people, but 3G hemis have been in steady production since '03 so they'll be available for a while. And as long as the salvage place near you isn't a scalpin' thief, they can be had for a decent price.

The LS is even better in that regard, because you get the same improvements over the platform it replaced...and for cheaper. It's not uncommon to see people on CL selling a running complete 5.3 out of a wrecked Sierra for $500-$1000. That's for a 330hp stock idle small block...slap in a used warmer cam (cuz you can do that with a roller), bolt on some headers and tune it correctly you're knocking on 400hp.

...or you can read this article...

415HP From A Basic 5.3 LS Engine!

I'll grant you that HRM's dyno down at Westech is probably a little...optimistic, but even still, a 5.3 pushing 400 or near it is pretty decent for most people's wants.
 
I believe the msd box that runs the coil packs and cam and crank sensors is a good compromise of technology and simplicity. In both the hemi and LS platform

Once the carb is properly tuned, drive ability is great and mileage is good as well.

A good compromise IMHO. Eric L
 
prorac1 said:
Once the carb is properly tuned, drive ability is great and mileage is good as well.

A good compromise IMHO. Eric L
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Well it seems to work for you. Carbs are still evil voodoo to me. I could never get what I wanted out of mine and gave up to go with a TBI efi setup. So the idea of abandoning great efi on an LS/Hemi seems like a waste.
 
magnumdust said:
Well it seems to work for you. Carbs are still evil voodoo to me. I could never get what I wanted out of mine and gave up to go with a TBI efi setup. So the idea of abandoning great efi on an LS/Hemi seems like a waste.
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I have done quite a bit of tuning with both EFI and carbs. I've done all my own tuning on my SS and on friends cars. I enjoy the challenge and learning experience of the EFI. From tunercats obd1 (dos based stuff) to the HP tuners software we've been working with lately, and also some FAST EZ EFI stuff on dads truck.

The valiant might eventually have EFI as well. My main reason for going carbed on the valiant was because I already had a big HP fuel system with cell, 8 AN line, and big magnafuel pump. Than I found a smokin deal on a carb and intake. I have little to nothing into going carb.

Currently I am getting 14-15 mpg with the valiant with a 4.10 gear, 31" tire, 4000 stall, and a 950 hp carb. I don't even have the MAP sensor hooked up yet or an overdrive. I'm pretty happy with it. I think it's a good compromise.

The distributor conversion thing though, I really don't get my self. Unless your trying to turn 8000 + RPM. Eric L
 
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