Lucky Me, Now What

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plefe

plefe

OldSchool
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I am the proud owner of a 70' slant six Dart Swinger w/48,000 original dry Montana miles. Car is almost showroom. I have moved back to dryer New Mexico and have come across aan old machine shop from the 60's that's still is in business. These guys are over-run by unmolested 383, 400, and 440 blocks nobody wanted. I mean literally, I have at least 30 potential builds staring me in the face. I'm pulling the 6 and opting for a stock sleeper 383 stroker of a most budget minded build, as I may buy him out on everything and go into business with him on some motors for stock looking sleepers, along with a few 400 based stroker racing motors. Anyhow, I'm dropping one of the many 440 cranks into a fresh .060 over 383 and porting and gasket matching a stock set of 452 hardened seat heads to the limits of about 300cfms or as close as possible. Everything I've read and understood from the research available says that the 383 likes being cammed at an advertised duration of 230deg @.050in with a centerline of 110-114 (112 to be sure). I'm sure this is going to get me a very streetable and conservative 500hp motor, but was wondering if this cam is helping the breathing capability of the heads and planned exhaust as well as it should. Does this combo sound under-cammed? Am I missing something? Seems like that if opening the heads, running the correct planned intake and header combo, that more duration and lift would be needed to optimize this package. Transmission and gearing changes aside, seems to me that maybe a stock 383 would be using the stock Mopar cam at this duration. Can you guys help me to think through this to form a more confident mindset about this? Thanks.
 
Personally, I would drive and enjoy it the way it is.


If I just had to do an engine swap, I would put a 360 in it. (best option for a well balanced, fast, street car)

If I just had to have a big block (but this isn't something I would even think about doing), I would do all the other (in my opinion "Needed") upgrades first.

Like:

Disc Brakes and Suspension for starters.


In todays world of stroker small blocks, I just don't see the point of a big block swap with it's added complexity and weight.
 
1968FormulaS340 said:
Personally, I would drive and enjoy it the way it is.


If I just had to do an engine swap, I would put a 360 in it. (best option for a well balanced, fast, street car)

If I just had to have a big block (but this isn't something I would even think about doing), I would do all the other (in my opinion "Needed") upgrades first.

Like:

Disc Brakes and Suspension for starters.


In todays world of stroker small blocks, I just don't see the point of a big block swap with it's added complexity and weight.
Click to expand...

I agree with this as far as upgrading the suspension and brakes and prepping it for a big block first.

I LOVE my 440, but there is a lot more that goes into the swap to get it driving right than just motor mounts and a tranny.
 
Its your choice, but for me its a big block. Nothing like a 440 in an A-Body.
 
In my opinion :

- If you *insist* on going with a big block , I'd suggest the 383 ( or even a 400 ) . It's a big block with small block behaviours ; they're easier to drop-in than a 413/426/440 , et seq. ; power brakes can even be utilised .

Make it look factory stock ( like that FJ6 Scamp with its 383 Super Commando ! ) .

- I'm personally split when it comes to small blocks . The classic 340 is my favourite . There's just some-thing about saying "three-forty" when asked as to what engine you've got .

Then on the flip-side is the new(er) , Magnum-series 360 . Roller Cam and lifters ( no ZDDP additives after break-in ! ), superior heads , better distributor design , etc.

In the end it's up to you 100% .

 
Have you "dropped" this 440 crank in the 383 yet? You know the mains are different and the throws will hit the block I assume. Getting past these minor setbacks, you could do a 400 better than a 383 with the same amount of funds. More cubes and I believe a better selection of shelf stroker pistons. The B fits better than the RB in these chassis, slightly more narrow and the extra 1/2 inch on each side or so may be all you need for a hassle free install.
 
It all depends on how deep your pockets are, Personally i wouldn't install a BB in a damn near perfect 70 Swinger, Theres alot of money involved, I was into BB A bodies & thats all i ever wanted & built, But for me anymore it'll be SB for an A body, much cheaper & fairly simple, Plus the A body works much better with a SB & they can still be very potent, With all that investment you'll be out, your better off stroking a 360 to a 408 & call it a day, Car will work/handle great & should pull off 11.0s all day long on pump gas in a full body 70 Swinger & be VERY streetable.
 
Thanks for all your thoughts guys. It was fun reading, I must admit. One of these days I will build a mega inch small block to go along with my other motors, but if you read further and think about it, I wasn't asking what to build, but how to work out the kinks on what I have already decided to build. I'm saving 400 and 440 builds for race builds. I may build atleast one screamin 400 street/strip build, but for now the 383 is on the bench. I understand the ins and outs of a swap, and already have the suspension and handling mods in the works. Read further and you will see that I'm asking a cam question. Thanks for all your comments though, I enjoy all of this. It's my 2nd childhood
 
you can go in just about any direction that you want.

suspension and brake upgrades should be made weather you go small block or big block.

i can tell you one thing though. there is nothing like driving a big block a-body. they are awesome. and don't listen to the oldheads that tell you they are dangerous on the street and the way they handle. there are tons of choices out there to get a big block to handle damn good..
 
abodyjoe said:
i can tell you one thing though. there is nothing like driving a big block a-body.
Click to expand...

You're right-on about that !Too much fun ; nothing compares to it !

don't listen to the oldheads that tell you they are dangerous on the street and the way they handle.
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Back when the cars were new , and even into the 70's and 80's , they had a greater potential of becoming a bear to operate . Crappy , hockypuck tyres ; limited tyre sizes ; and limited wheel sizes (exasperated by that stupid 5x4" bolt pattern ! ).
there are tons of choices out there to get a big block to handle damn good..
Click to expand...

I've operated a '69 Dart with a 496" / Art Carr 727 combo , and it was setup properly :
- Direct Connection Big Block Spool K-Member (long ago discontinued)
- Subframe Connectors
- Underchassis Headers (very expensive )
- 16:1 steering box ( original to the car , as it was a 340 Swinger originally)
- 14x8 rear wheels ( widened original steel wheels )
- Radiator from a 70's New Yorker (28" wide ; core support neatly modified to accommodate the wider radiator core )
- 7 paddle fan with thermal-drive clutch (from a big block '78 Monaco ex-CHP unit)
- Manual disc brakes (original Kelsey-Hayes 4 piston calipres , with stainless sleeves and DOT 5 silicone brake fluid )
- Super Stock springs , de-arched
- Sway bars front and rear

This car was built in the early-to-mid-80's . The car's builder did it up nicely ; he didn't skimp on the details .
It actually handled in spite of itself ; the subframe connectors , the slightly-lowered stance , and the sway bars all helped monumentally.
Even though the front wheels were the original 14x5.5" steelies with 205-70-14's , it still cornered smoothly.

Now a days , it even easier to do-up a big block "A" .
 
I'd do more homework. IMO, you wont get 500hp from a 426" engine with that cam. The best choice, if you want a B wedge stroker, is one of those 400 blocks that's hanging around, either a welded and offset ground 440 crank to get 3.915, or better yet, the 440 Source rotating kit (making 470"), and a set of cleaned up RPMs on it. That will give you huge torque, good quench, take weight off the nose, and with the right cam (yes, your choice is too small) will make 500hp and more importantly, 500+ torque.
 
abodyjoe said:
you can go in just about any direction that you want.

suspension and brake upgrades should be made weather you go small block or big block.

i can tell you one thing though. there is nothing like driving a big block a-body. they are awesome. and don't listen to the oldheads that tell you they are dangerous on the street and the way they handle. there are tons of choices out there to get a big block to handle damn good..
Click to expand...

I've seen this car on the site before. Would you be willing to share with me your exact suspension mods, wheel/tire combo, and whether or not you mini-tubbed or just moved everything inboard? Did you convert to big bolt size, etc. Thanks for your help.
 
I initially believed all the stuff about bad handling etc.

My car was a 74 A body, subframe connectors, manual steering, rebuilt rear springs and CE drag shocks. Tight bushings and tie rod ends and the stock /6 torsion bars.

With a 440 it was very driveable and rode decently. I did not try any high G corners or anything, but it was fine. I could have easily drove it daily and done so safely.

I think alot of the stuff about bad handling comes from comparing the car to modern vehicles and driving them like a modern car. Also, these cars are 40 years old and many have worn out parts.

My car at least was surprising how well it did drive. I'd build another in a second.

ROB
 
plefe said:
I've seen this car on the site before. Would you be willing to share with me your exact suspension mods, wheel/tire combo, and whether or not you mini-tubbed or just moved everything inboard? Did you convert to big bolt size, etc. Thanks for your help.
Click to expand...


my car?

front suspension: RMS alter-k-tion
rear suspension: RMS street lynx
Front wheel/tires: 17x8 with 5.72 backspace. 225/50-17 tires.
rear wheel/tires: 17x8 with 5.72 backspace. 275/50-17 tires.

mini-tubbed: NO.

big bolt: YES
 
abodyjoe said:
my car?

front suspension: RMS alter-k-tion
rear suspension: RMS street lynx
Front wheel/tires: 17x8 with 5.72 backspace. 226/50-17 tires.
rear wheel/tires: 17x8 with 5.72 backspace. 275/50-17 tires.

mini-tubbed: NO.

big bolt: YES
Click to expand...

Does the RMS Street Lynx move your leafs in?
 
plefe said:
Does the RMS Street Lynx move your leafs in?
Click to expand...

it eliminates the leaf springs all together. its a triangulated 4 link.

RMSrearsuspension006.jpg



RMSrearsuspension071.jpg
 
abodyjoe said:
it eliminates the leaf springs all together. its a triangulated 4 link.

RMSrearsuspension006.jpg



RMSrearsuspension071.jpg
Click to expand...

So how long have you had the setup, and has it been bulletproof for you. Did you install the system yourself? Welded trailing arm perches (did I say that right)?
 
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