M C rod??

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barbee6043

barbee 6043
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65 dart, I changed it over from single MC to dual. its been a few years since I made this conversion. do I need a longer rod from pedal to MC.?? I have ne w lines, brakes shoes, wheel cyl, bleed it good, no leaks but still don't have normal amount of pedal. only thing else is maybe bleed the mc again. thanks for any input.
 
Does the pedal get hard? After its hard is there still an inch or two between it and the floor?
If it doesnt get hard,fix that first.
Then if the pedal is uncomfortably low, a longer pushrod will bring it up. There is a stop,I think, at the top of the under-dash-bracket. If the pushrod gets to be too long,the compensating port will not work, and as the pads and shoes wear, the pedal will lock-step fall, until it fails to stop the car.
 
That right there is messed up. It has to get hard on the first application, and within about 2 to3 inches of the top or within about 60% of full stroke.
This has to be addressed first.
Im going to take it as truth, that the pedal gets hard. thats HARD, cannot bounce the pedal,hard.
By stroking it 3 times, you are pumping fluid down the line. What is the fluid doing? It is pushing the w/c pushrods out, to move the shoes out, to reach the drums. When the shoes finally reach the drums, the pedal gets hard.Then when you release the pedal, the return springs force every thing back to the starting position, including pushing the fluid back to the m/c. Then on the next brake application, you get to start all over.
The fact that it does get hard, tells me two things; 1) the compensating port is working,and therefore the pushrod is at least close to being the correct length, and 2) there is probably little to no air in the system.So far/so good
So I believe the problem is mechanical.
In an all-drum system this can usually be traced to incorrect star-wheel adjustment,or incorrect parts, or incorrect assembly,or shoes that dont fit the drums correctly.It doesnt take very much misadjustment in each drum to add up to a lot of stroke. However, to get to 3 strokes is a lot of adjusting.
For the moment,lets assume that all the parts are correct, that the shoe-radius fits and matches the drum-radius, and that its all assembled correctly.
-Since you dont mention new drums, lets talk about that.Used drums can be out-of-round,have a large rusty un-worn ring around the outermost edge, and/or be heavily ridged. Any one of these can cause the starwheels to falsely indicate during the adjustment, and lead to excessive pedal-travel.
-Next, a word about adjusting drumbrakes.Adjusting these is more than just cranking out the starwheels.Many times you have to apply the pedal after cranking it, to center the shoes in the drums,and on the backing plates.Sometimes the shoes hang up on their bearing plates. Sometimes if the shoes dont match the drums in their radii, all the cranking just puts the lower-most corners of the shoes into contact with the drums.
The brake adjustment should end with all the wheels slightly dragging. Any free-turning ones need to be tightened.I like a good break-away torque with a light turning torque. A couple of blocks around town will loosen them up. I try very hard to get them all close to the same, with many,many pedal appications.
Assuming you knew all this, and had the drums machined,and the shoes matched, lets continue.
-So theres two ways to do this;the long way or the short way.
Im going to start with the long way. Crank all the adjusters out til they put the shoes hard into the drums. Then check the pedal. A hard,high,half-stroke pedal now would indicate that Im right, the problem is just adjustment. A soft,spongy pedal now,indicates air,go find it.A multi-stroke,ending in a hard pedal now,indicates a pedal not returning to its parked position, or a too-short pushrod adjustment,or wrong parts.Start at the pedal-park.
After thats fixed, dont forget to re-adjust the starwheels!lol
 
Here is the short way;If you have old,hard flex hoses dont use this method.If you use this method,be forewarned; I accept no responsibility for failed hoses;not today and not ever.
You will need to clamp the lines.This requires a special clamp. One where the edges of the vices cannot unduly dig into or cut the hose sheaths. Then you simply clamp a line, and pedal test.I usually start at the back, because one clamp eliminates both rear brakes.If clamping the rear, very significantly reduces the pedal travel,go there and adjust the starwheels out to the drums,remove the clamp, and retest.Still got huge travel? Re-clamp it,and move to the front. Go to the passenger/right side and clamp that line, and pedal test.Problem solved? Go back and adjust that starwheel, pushing the shoes out,until you get a heavy drag,and pedaltest.Continue in this way.
Once the pedal gets hard,remove all the clamps and retest.
And finally re-adjust the starwheels, and double check that the clamps are all off.
 
I guess, you might want to know why the first way is the long way?
The better question is why is the second way, the short way?
Because most of the time, I work on disc/drum systems, and clamping the rear line almost always, instantly, proves the diagnoses.
Alright,Okay, Im outta here, best of luck
 
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