Making molds of a part or 2

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66Dvert

66Dvert

Working on my custom car parts again!
Joined
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Webster , florida
I decided to go ahead and start on some molds for the parts I need to finish up the dart and have a tracing coming from a User on here that was kind enough to trace his kick panels for me and mail it to me. Soooo while I was waiting I decided to get the harder parts I want made out of the way. here's a start on the rear convertible top plastic pieces that got on the rear side panels that hide the lift cylinder. (now I know why they want so much money to make these darn things) I"m nearly done with the drivers side, and I have to glue up the passengers side just to get 95 percent of the passengers side and fudge the rest to match the drivers side
here's some pic's (hope the wife does not see this since it was on her trunk lid that I did all this)

what really supprised me was it's not held on by the bottom trim. the only thing that holds it on is the top boot snaps that are screwed in around the top,, weird.


here it is using the almost whole piece as a master, I forgot to wax the heck out of it so things wouldnt stick and it to most of the day yesterday to get the mold out without breaking the piece worse that it already was.
View attachment DSCF3726.jpg
got it out and started fixing the gouge marks I put in it from trying to get it out.
View attachment DSCF3727.jpg

used foam insulation to bulk out the bondo mold and it seems to work just fine.

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here's different views

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got it sanded to 180 so far and still need more I'll ramp it up to 400 before I'm done just so It (the plastic) comes off the mold easier. then 5 or more coats of wax to use as release agent for the plastic.
 
it's sort of easy just take your time and think it through first. (don't forget to wax the surface)

here's the second part (passengers side) that I just pulled from the part. it still needs work but now I can do the finish work on both pieces and ship them to the vacuformmer guy. hopefully I won't have to add big risers to get the part to mold. I do have to add a baseplate to make the part easier to get out of the mold.


View attachment DSCF3734.jpg

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now to get some finish work done on these baby's and I'll have good pieces to put on my 2 darts!:cheers:
 
jeffb said:
thats gonna need a big vacuformer..mines only 9"x14"
Click to expand...


the piece is only about 8 inches tall and about 23 long. but it has a wicked undercut that makes it a space hog.
the guy I am taking it to has a 4 ft by 8 ft heater with a huge Vacume tank. darn thing s gotta be 6 ft around and 10 ft long . the platten is a shuttle type. wicked watching it go. and that's his LITTLE one! I hope he stays in business since he's one of the few people left that do small runs. I'll have to get 15 sets made just to get him to run it but it'll be worth it since no one repops that piece. and there are a few other pieces that I can get him to run with that piece so he doesn't waste a piece of plastic that I'm paying for.
 
are you planing on selling these? and if so what kind of legality steps need to be taken? I have a guy that wants to look into repopping some parts but I dont feel like getting sued....
 
mopardrt said:
are you planing on selling these? and if so what kind of legality steps need to be taken? I have a guy that wants to look into repopping some parts but I dont feel like getting sued....
Click to expand...


Nope I'm not interested in putting them on the market to sell exclusively. but I have to do something with the extras don't I? I've always wondered about the convertible top people and the carpet people. plus if china does the legality thing. did they pay each and every company a fee for making convertible tops ,carpets,door panels and seat covers? I know of at least 3 interior company's that have taken patterns from old seats,side panels and door panels and never once have they had to pay a royalty fee. some of these companies sell to legendary and year one. I have no idea what steps are involved in licensing the part for a chrysler logo or exact reproduction part and don't think it's worth the effort to do it for a low volume part. now if it was an E-body convertible side panel where I could get thousands for the thing them I'd have to look into getting it licensed so I could make mega bucks for that and not have to worry some one will repop em cheaper. for my lowly A-bodies MEH! I'll do it cause I want to and love every minute of it.


I'm building the molds for me. I've looked for a pentastar or a part number stamped into the part and can't find one , so it was a small aftermarket/parts supplier that originally made those. I'm not making an exact copy of the side panel for purist's but a replacement part that fit's better and will be thicker +.010 so it'll last longer. plus not made out of the same material.(they used styrene) I'm shooting for an ABS run. It'd be sort of hard for them to sue me , not that they wouldn't try if they could, and might. but for a limited run of parts to fix My darts with some extra's I don't think they'd bother me.

I have 2 darts and in order to get the part made by the vacuformer guy I deal with he need to make 15 sets to use all of his machine and not waste plastic. yeah I'll have extra's but that the price I'm willing to pay to get good covers. later I'll decide what to do with the extra's to recoup some of the money I'll have to spend to get them made. I've seen them on ebay and the cracked ones go for 100+ and they want stupid prices for the complete panel WITHOUT the SS trim! I can even get him to mold up the panels out of 1/4 or 3/16 plastic so that they would never crack or rot again (if I make a mold first. again this one 's a 30 minimum set run, so it ain't happening soon. same with the modified kick panels with speaker kick outs. (these ARE happening since I want some of the speaker kick panels that won't rot from my wet feet hitting the side panel) again I have to make the mold for him to save cost and match it up to the dart, at 50 bucks a change I'm going to be pretty sure everything is perfect before I get him to run 30 sets of those.


ohh and a real form fitted glove box. like I had in the original dart instead of the fold up cardboard one. I finally scored a good one to get a mold off of that too! again not a perfect reproduction since I'm not making the grooves on the outside of the glove box and a completely new material and not putting in the stiffener since .120 HIP plastic is Wayyyyyyyy stiffer than the pressboard was.
 
sounds good man I hear ya, I wanted to do some sharktooth grilles and turn signal lenses for 73 and 74 dart grilles plus some other much needed parts but just worried about legality of the situation.
 
been watching your build and i just picked up a 66 dart vert so i'm interested in what you are doing and maybe an extra set..sd426
 
superdart426 said:
been watching your build and i just picked up a 66 dart vert so i'm interested in what you are doing and maybe an extra set..sd426
Click to expand...
thanks
there is so many parts that were broken on my 66 that I'm slowly working my way through them. I've got way to many irons in the fire but it'll all work out somehow. (I hope)
I'm in the process of
1. convertible top header seal and 2 side pieces(I had no idea the side pieces were there until I found a part of one on someones 66 dart)
got both side pieces made and checked for fit center piece just came in from the metal shop that bent them in a u shape to hold the seal now all I have to do is make the compound curve to fit the header without distorting it too bad.
2. top switch bezel (got all the broken pieces I think) still haven't received the silicone mold material
3. rear,front turn signal,brake and backup lights in led configuration.
4. outer chrome tail light bezels cast in red acrylic to match the lense for the rear. just got a usable left outer bezel to make molds with (again material hasn't arrived)
5. rear side panels finish pieces for the convertible.(working on molds)
6 a good replacement glove-box instead of the aftermarket fold up piece of crap.(got part need to make mold)
7. rebuild the slant for my dart, so I can finally drive it (sitting on the garage floor)
8. wiring for the power windows and engine bay (spread all over the place)
9. mock up the hydraulic motor in a spare front clip so that I can get the turbo setup going. (not even gonna happen till next year)

as you can see I jump from part to part when money allows I go forward on the easiest one to get done. still got a load of stuff to do!

led's are almost done and I have a guy running a batch of boards for me to solder up. (of course I'll switch to SMD leds and have to redo everything again anyway)
wiring kit to make both rear light on my 66 dart work as running/brake and turn signals is done! I just sent the sample out to a company that's supposed to make them for me. (looking for a complete set of 65's to mock up with leds also)
 
I've been waiting on a tracing of the kick panels (mine sucked big time. only had half of em) A BIG thanks to Cuda65vpt for sending me the tracings they were great! anyway I started on the drivers side to mock up the buck for the mold, here's where I'm at right now

next up is the filler to smooth things out.
View attachment DSCF3739.JPG


I wanted to angle the speakers so that your legs and feet didn't muffle the sound.
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here it is in the car to test (it's made 3/8th bigger all around so that I can pop it out of the mold so it doesn't fit in the car) the test fit tracings on hard board using the pattern without the buck. it fit perfectly. oh and it misses the dimmer switch so I can still get to the high beams. it'll raise up another 1/2 inch or better at the top right above the speaker I'm forming in a slight curve to compensate for the convertible power top wiring that goes into that area and bulges out the hard board if you have a shoe size 12's or 13's then you might have a problem hitting the dimmer switch but size 7 to 11 work. it it looks to be a problem than I can raise the speaker ring another inch 1/2 to clear even the biggest shoes. hmmm yup might want to do that since I don't want to pay the 50 buck part change to the vacu-former.

View attachment DSCF3741.JPG
 
scottylack said:
is that a speaker extension???
Click to expand...
yep I'm going to get them vacuformed for 5 1/4 round speakers (also sotck flat ones) and out of 1/8 ABS so I don't have to repair the cardboard ones anymore. they'll be cut on the beveled area of the MDF you see for correct shape.

so far I've got the drivers side bondo'd up and fitted to the car and am working on the passengers side. once the molds are made I'll ship them to the vacuformer guy I know to run a test set to see where I screwed up (first time never is right) but I'm getting closer each part I try on. since it cost's 50 bucks each change I do I try to make it right ASAP.
since I have 2 darts to do I decided to just bite the bullet and make molds to get them made out of plastic instead of fiberglass. It helps that I can add insulation behind the panels also.
 
grimreaper said:
How does the air box fit if the speaker extends that far?
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it's rather short and angled(and 8-9 inches away from the firewall) on the drivers side airbox side @ only 1.5 inches out and the air box door swings right past it. I'll double check the clearance as soon as the test pieces get made and adjust as necessary. since I have A/C going into the dart I don't expect to use the door (but it does open and close) except to clean leaves and such out of the air box. so far the passenger side opens right up to the speaker grill and it's 90% open, that works for me.
 
Well I just got back in contact with the vacuform guy and the later A body's are a success I think, but I might have to pay to get 50 pairs run. (still have to test them on a car again.) the early a's .....ahh not so much. for some reason he keeps having changes made so that his machine can run them in pairs. ARGHHHHHH! I'm getting 50.00'd to death!
The rear side cover panels have a size issue due to the abs shrinking slightly when cooling,which should be corrected in a couple weeks after I get back from Michigan(hey the dream cruise is happening ya know) but I was going to take him an original glove box liner to see what he thought about doing one of them in ABS for the early A's too! I'm trying to get him to bundle for a discount if I can AND run less than 50 per piece. that gets darn expensive.
here's a look at the later A setup (drivers side only at this time but I'm working on the other one now.) the early a's I have to redo in a 2 mold setup darnit!!

drivers side later a's front . it's done in haircell ABS since I couldn't afford o pay 2 grand for a bulk lot of the "supposedly" correct grain plastic. but since it ain't stock I thought it was a better setup.
View attachment DSCF4133.jpg
drivers side backside (it could use a little sanding to clean up the finish but doesn't look too bad for a test!
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here's an original glove box from an early A GT. not that fold up crap everyone is selling. I'm hoping I can get a mold to him after I get back from Michigan in early September and have a fit by the end of September. if he's going to be unreasonably high on cost I'll just take the male mold I made and using the part make a female and cast the darn things myself! (longer process and harder to do but at least I can run one offs)
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here's the back side with some odd angles. but it darn sure looks better than the fold up ones to me!
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and another view that shows the angles even better.
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so hopefully I'l have rot proof (November or December)
1 Early A stock(flat or slightly curved anyway) style kick panels (black only for right now)63-66
2 Early A with speakers kick panels (black only for right now)63-66
3 rear side panel trim covers for convertibles (black or white for right now)63-66
4. convertible top switch covers for 66 dart convertibles. (white only for now)
5 Early A original style glove box liner (smooth on the inside and haircell pattern on the outside or hidden part) cast = white for test, black for finished product
6 later A's kick panels with speaker kickout. (black only for right now)
(unless I can get the run down from 50 it ain't happening)20-25 set's I might do. and I have to find out the exact years and cars this pattern will fit. 67 to 7?.

as I think of more things I'll mold em up and send em out for a test. since I'm having it done by thermal forming process instead of injection molding I'm limited to what colors I can get or use. sucks!
 
I have looked and looked for a part number for all these pieces and can't find any. so I'll just post the parts as what I call them.(with pic's of course):glasses7:
 
66Dvert said:
Well I just got back in contact with the vacuform guy and the later A body's are a success I think, but I might have to pay to get 50 pairs run. (still have to test them on a car again.) the early a's .....ahh not so much. for some reason he keeps having changes made so that his machine can run them in pairs. ARGHHHHHH! I'm getting 50.00'd to death!
The rear side cover panels have a size issue due to the abs shrinking slightly when cooling,which should be corrected in a couple weeks after I get back from Michigan(hey the dream cruise is happening ya know) but I was going to take him an original glove box liner to see what he thought about doing one of them in ABS for the early A's too! I'm trying to get him to bundle for a discount if I can AND run less than 50 per piece. that gets darn expensive.
here's a look at the later A setup (drivers side only at this time but I'm working on the other one now.) the early a's I have to redo in a 2 mold setup darnit!!

drivers side later a's front . it's done in haircell ABS since I couldn't afford o pay 2 grand for a bulk lot of the "supposedly" correct grain plastic. but since it ain't stock I thought it was a better setup.
View attachment 1714643303
drivers side backside (it could use a little sanding to clean up the finish but doesn't look too bad for a test!
View attachment 1714643304

here's an original glove box from an early A GT. not that fold up crap everyone is selling. I'm hoping I can get a mold to him after I get back from Michigan in early September and have a fit by the end of September. if he's going to be unreasonably high on cost I'll just take the male mold I made and using the part make a female and cast the darn things myself! (longer process and harder to do but at least I can run one offs)
View attachment 1714643305
here's the back side with some odd angles. but it darn sure looks better than the fold up ones to me!
View attachment 1714643306
and another view that shows the angles even better.
View attachment 1714643307

so hopefully I'l have rot proof (November or December)
1 Early A stock(flat or slightly curved anyway) style kick panels (black only for right now)63-66
2 Early A with speakers kick panels (black only for right now)63-66
3 rear side panel trim covers for convertibles (black or white for right now)63-66
4. convertible top switch covers for 66 dart convertibles. (white only for now)
5 Early A original style glove box liner (smooth on the inside and haircell pattern on the outside or hidden part) cast = white for test, black for finished product
6 later A's kick panels with speaker kickout. (black only for right now)
(unless I can get the run down from 50 it ain't happening)20-25 set's I might do. and I have to find out the exact years and cars this pattern will fit. 67 to 7?.

as I think of more things I'll mold em up and send em out for a test. since I'm having it done by thermal forming process instead of injection molding I'm limited to what colors I can get or use. sucks!
Click to expand...

Those later kick panels with the speaker holes in them look great. How much for a pair? Id like a set in black for my 67 barracuda. I believe this kick panel should fit all A bodies from 1967 to 1976.

The back side of your test piece looks great, id buy the pair you have made as test parts. Dont ever sell yourself short how this stuff looks. BTW these kick panels are held in with a chrome countersunk screw. Will these replacement panels include at the very least a dimpled boss in the same location for the screw.
PM me on these.

Matt
 
Couple of questions:

Do you have a photo of the final outcome on the rear side panel trim covers for convertibles? Do the early A kick panels with speakers allow the airbox door to open? Do you have prices?
 
grimreaper said:
Couple of questions:

Do you have a photo of the final outcome on the rear side panel trim covers for convertibles? Do the early A kick panels with speakers allow the airbox door to open? Do you have prices?
Click to expand...


only a few answers right now. and none of them any fully positive for you.sorry it's a work in progress as money allows me to proceed. and long winded too!:D

Do you have a photo of the final outcome on the rear side panel trim covers for convertibles? No I'm having a size issue with the part. It shrinks slightly with the plastic and I don't like the way it fits on my side panels. (too short both ways to hit the bottom SS trim (1/16)correctly, and not hide the back part of the fiberglass (1/8) I am resizing the mold to better fit the panel by cutting it in quarters and adding 1/8th of an inch each way and refinishing it. I will show the finished panel on my(both sizes) side panel and put in my car so you can see the way it fit's. I might leave the back side(well area) a little long since I have 2 set's of side covers that are different in that area. you can trim to fit or leave it a little long (1/8).

Do the early A kick panels with speakers allow the airbox door to open? YES/NO, good answer right:banghead:. The drivers side does allow opening but the passenger does not and this time.(I screwed up and mounted it higher than the drivers side going off the older notes and measurements I had)on the mold.
that's the reason I'm changing the mold again,and again (plus he want's to run a double piece vacu-form part to save on plastic wasted) I can't blame him on that one.

the later ones I still have to go over to waggins and see if he will let me test fit the part on his car. so I can't tell you that. it seems that the 1/2 of one set I didn't need done first got done first and I have no way to check it for correctness easily. and the passengers side still looks ugly(really UGLY).

Do you have prices. not at this time since I have not got a price quote from the vacu-former on a good run on any set of parts yet. or even a good run on a full set!
I'm having a size of run/pricing issue with him.
I needed him to get the early A stuff done first( side panels and kick panels are needed for MY car TOO! I'm the guinea pig) since he wants to run more and more of the parts in run's of 100 and charges me 50 bucks per change ( I make the change on my mold not him) . Which I definitely can't afford to do at this time. I am talking to another vacu-former shop that said the they will do smaller runs using my molds,which will be slightly more expensive but affordable. but I have to fix them if they break them,they do not fix molds. so I'll have to be there when they run my molds.

I do know the early A's will be cheaper than the later A's due to the mold simplicity.(flat panel original style and the speaker kick out) and the side panel trim covers should be similar to the later A's cost according to the vacuformer due to the heavy undercuts in the pieces. As soon as I get a complete set made of each part done to my liking and cost (I'm picky about the fit and durability of the part) I don't want to be on par with cheap "Chinese crap" but nice quality parts I'm proud to put on my car. I'll post it here with prices, Right now with alll the things happening I have only been able to get one side done of the later A's and not been able to test fit it on any car yet. as for the glovebox I'm waiting on a quote to do a sample run after I finish the epoxy mold with the new shop.



Another quistion (by 66DVERT)
is it a concours resto part. NO they are not and will never be! I want these parts made for MY car only originally. but decided that others might want/need some similar type of parts. They are a part that fit's as good or better than the original but will not rot(kick panels, glovebox) Yes they will mimic the shape of the part they are supposed to be but will not pass a "numbers matching original resto" if you really look at it.sort of like an oil filter wix/fram/mopar filter fight, they all do the job but the Wix is better and the mopar is correct. I did not want to try(cost and licensing, been there, done that, won't do it again) and make a restoration Mopar part with the part numbers and logo stamped on it. I wanted something that will work,look good and not rot/break like the originals did. I'm using thicker plastic or more durable type of plastic. ABS vs styrene or ABS vs glove box cardboard. so far a slow work in progress and not very much forward progreess at that. 1 step forward and 2 back.. it's driving me crazy! AND broke with all the changes.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Those later kick panels with the speaker holes in them look great. How much for a pair? Id like a set in black for my 67 barracuda. I believe this kick panel should fit all A bodies from 1967 to 1976.

The back side of your test piece looks great, id buy the pair you have made as test parts. Dont ever sell yourself short how this stuff looks. BTW these kick panels are held in with a chrome countersunk screw. Will these replacement panels include at the very least a dimpled boss in the same location for the screw.
PM me on these.

Matt
Click to expand...

I took a pattern off of a set(not a good set but they were all there) and did see a dimpled section that was drilled out. I'll test fit and let you know, I'll aslo go out to the garage and take a better picture of the holes versus the originals. only one side is done ok to my satisfaction (except for test fit)the other side just came out warped to all get out. These darn things were the LAST set that was supposed to get made since I didn't have a car handy to test fit them on. I have to see if Waggin will let me test fit em on his car since he's probably the closest member near me. the early a's parts were supposed to get done first! ARGHHHHH! :banghead:


here's the pic's of the original drivers side and the hole locations or the replacement part. there is not a slot cut into the new part. but it can be finished to look like the original slot. The lines are not as crisp as the injection molded part, but the part is really close in size and shape.
View attachment DSCF4135.jpg

View attachment DSCF4136.jpg

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I'm making a forward progress on the molds. I had to yak them molds from the vacu former place. all they wanted to do was milk my of money for their screwups, I'd rather waste my time doing the screwups myself! plus they lost a set of early A kick panel molds I had done. anyway that's all behind me now. I have a drivers side early A speaker kick panel setup and almost ready to go on my home made cnc machine. (hey why work hard when you can make a machine do it for ya?) it came out even better than the first set. a whole lot less manual work involved in this set too!:D

any way after I"m sure that it works I'll just rotate the darn pattern in the cad program and have the passengers side ready to go with a lot less hassle.
they are setup for 5-1/4 speakers so they can be sourced real easy.
here's the drivers side in it's varying phases.


the start!
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the shape!
hey! round is a shape
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the fit test against the air door clearance.

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need to test a 5-1/4 speaker for sure!
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now that the test piece fit's time to make the mold!

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nope I ain't sanding that hard!(besides I have a major problem keeping a circle a circle!:glasses7:

View attachment DSCF4347.jpg

a couple of mods and it looks like I have it the way I want it. yeah I made em like the later model ones since I like the way they cover the carpet.

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that little kickout at the bottom makes em really strong and after they are molded in .060 or .090 ABS they should be super strong and rot proof
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hmm made the bottom curve too long . ah well I can shorten them easily before finalizing them,

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now just a little sanding (I hate sanding, and spotweld cutting!) and then a good coat of thinned epoxy glue to seal it and it'll be ready to make parts. so I can pretty much chalk up the drivers side as a good piece after I make those small mods to the bottom edge. On to the Passengers side!
 
got some more done just slower than I'd like. I'm ahving to learn new software for the CNC machine and figure out how to makew some of the thing I want/need for my car. I'm in the roughing stage for the passengers side kick panel today:)D sure is nice having the machine do the work for me)
and in the final finishing phase for the drivers side kick panel,molded glove box liner, rear convertible side panel top plastic's and both rear splash shields for my dart! :cheers:yeah baby! .... now to piss the electrician off and call him AGAIN:pain10:. I want to get the vacuformer wired up so I can at least make the kick panels (plus it'll keep the garage WARM!!!!!)


starting on the passengers side.
View attachment DSCF4359.JPG
it should go a LOT faster since I just mirrored the drivers side that I know does cut out right! (minus the operator errors that somerhow creep in there)
View attachment DSCF4368.JPG


here's the 3 pieces that I have to finish sanding and mount to a flat board to be able to make the plastic parts! I'm stoked as all getout.
View attachment DSCF4360.JPG

just final layer of mud in a few places and finish sanding. then "PARTS are a makin"!
View attachment DSCF4362.JPG


here it is sitting on the small platen that is ready to go I can make the kick panels and the rear side panel top plastic pieces on this mold bed but the splash shields just won't fit. gotta get some more aluminum to finish up the 2' x4' platen(mold bed) and of course drill 600+ 1/16 holes ^%&*%^&$^%
View attachment DSCF4365.JPG

you can see the nichrome heating elements up there in the top. should keep the garage nice and toasty!:D
View attachment DSCF4367.JPG
 
I have some more work done today and am getting excited about making the parts. some are close to done and the closer I get the better I feel.

I sacrificed a good glove box liner that I had.
View attachment DSCF4369.JPG

thats a solid piece right there.
View attachment DSCF4370.JPG

fits perfectly into the other good one I had!
View attachment DSCF4372.JPG

it's getting there, front splash shield layup pattern
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the rear side panel top plastic pieces are almost mounted and glassed up. (hey they are mounted somewhat)
View attachment DSCF4375.JPG


another view before trimming and fiberglass the sides and bottom to make it sturdy so the vacuform doesn't crush it!
View attachment DSCF4376.JPG
 
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