Matching Torsion Bars, Leaf Springs and Shock Absorbers

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Johnny Dart said:
Do you ever read the full post from a member, or do you just see shocks, and scream Hotchkiss or Fox or Koni !!!!!!!
Because I don't think you do.
He stated that he "wasn't going to race the car, so that whole class of shock is out of consideration".
Did you read that part ?
I didn't think so, because suggesting a set of $600.00+ shocks is probably what he meant by, "whole class of shock".
What I get from his post is he is looking for a decent all around shock, that doesn't break the bank.
Maybe I'm wrong, and he has no problem putting $600.00+ shocks on his car. But from what I'm reading that is not what he is looking do. And for that matter, a set of KYB' or Monroe's would fit the bill just fine.
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He said Monroes would be better than KYBs a few posts back which I agree with. I'd lean towards Bilsteins myself for the price in that application but 0.89" t-bars are so soft. Won't hurt to be overdamped though, better than having soft shocks with stiff springs. The OP essentially has a factory suspension setup so factory-spec shocks will fit the bill.

KYB Gas-a-Justs have digressive valving where the damping rate starts high in relation to the velocity of the wheel's movement up or down and tapers off as the velocity increases. Works great on heavy vehicles with lots of unsprung weight (have a set on my '72 D200 with 33" tires and ran a set on my '93 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 and they were really nice at reducing tire bounce) but not so much on lighter vehicles with moderate unsprung weight. It just makes the ride firm but doesn't actually improve body control in fast left-right-left turns.

I'll throw this out there too... it's very very difficult for someone to know what "good handling" REALLY means until they've taken their car to the track and pushed it past its limits. Just because it has low body roll and rides firm doesn't mean it'll actually grip and go around corners well. In the OP's case it's really just about comfort which is why I'd lean towards Monroes.
 
Johnny Dart said:
Do you ever read the full post from a member, or do you just see shocks, and scream Hotchkiss or Fox or Koni !!!!!!!
Because I don't think you do.
He stated that he "wasn't going to race the car, so that whole class of shock is out of consideration".
Did you read that part ?
I didn't think so, because suggesting a set of $600.00+ shocks is probably what he meant by, "whole class of shock".
What I get from his post is he is looking for a decent all around shock, that doesn't break the bank.
Maybe I'm wrong, and he has no problem putting $600.00+ shocks on his car. But from what I'm reading that is not what he is looking do. And for that matter, a set of KYB' or Monroe's would fit the bill just fine.
Click to expand...

Yes, I read the OP’s entire post.

First off, Bilstein RCD’s are not “racing shocks”. For that matter, neither are Hotchkis Fox’s. I assumed by his “racing shocks” statement he didn’t want to run 90/10’s or other drag racing shocks on the street. Since when most people say “racing” around here they mean drag racing. Regardless, Bilstein RCD’s are not racing shocks.

It’s also why I said this in post #6, which you apparently didn’t read-

“If the price is a problem and you really want to run cheap shocks run the OE replacement Monroe’s or Gabriel’s, they’re both better shocks than the KYB’s and cost less.”

As @MopaR&D explained, KYB’s are a digressive shock. They give a harsh, jittery ride with small inputs and then collapse like a cheap table when you want them to resist a constant cornering load.

Basically, KYB’s suck all the time. But by all means, keep running them. Makes me smile- what’s that called? Schadenfreude?

And yeah, I’ve run ALL of the shocks I’ve talked about, including the KYB’s. So I’m very aware of the differences in ride quality and handling that you get between the Monroe’s, KYB’s, Bilstein RCD’s, and Hotchkis Fox’s. Which is exactly why I’d never buy KYB’s again, or recommend them to anyone.

Have you run Bilstein RCD’s or Hotchkis Fox’s? Or do you dismiss them on cost alone and have no idea how lousy those KYB’s are?
 
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I'll put in my 2 cents for Bilsteins for this application. With the "non-road race" torsion bars and rear springs. I think that investing a little in shocks that are a cut above stock is a good move. They will provide more control with those springs. I have 3 1970 Darts, on one I bought the Bilsteins and I was surprised at the difference.

By the way those "spaghetti" .89 torsion bars are what Chrysler engineers (you know, the ones that designed the rest of his car) specified for a Dart with a big block. I think they will do just fine.
 
str12-340 said:
I'll put in my 2 cents for Bilsteins for this application. With the "non-road race" torsion bars and rear springs. I think that investing a little in shocks that are a cut above stock is a good move. They will provide more control with those springs. I have 3 1970 Darts, on one I bought the Bilsteins and I was surprised at the difference.

By the way those "spaghetti" .89 torsion bars are what Chrysler engineers (you know, the ones that designed the rest of his car) specified for a Dart with a big block. I think they will do just fine.
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I have the 0.89 bars in my 66 Cuda sl/6 4spd. I like them just fine in my application.
 
str12-340 said:
I'll put in my 2 cents for Bilsteins for this application. With the "non-road race" torsion bars and rear springs. I think that investing a little in shocks that are a cut above stock is a good move. They will provide more control with those springs. I have 3 1970 Darts, on one I bought the Bilsteins and I was surprised at the difference.

By the way those "spaghetti" .89 torsion bars are what Chrysler engineers (you know, the ones that designed the rest of his car) specified for a Dart with a big block. I think they will do just fine.
Click to expand...

Yeah for 5" wide bias-ply tires... they'll work but after feeling the difference I'd never run below a 1" bar in anything unless it was a drag car that needed weight transfer. I don't think the OP should get rid of his if he already spent the money and put them in the car but if he might ever consider upgrading they're completely worth it, totally transforms an old Mopar for the better with no negative effects.
 
str12-340 said:
By the way those "spaghetti" .89 torsion bars are what Chrysler engineers (you know, the ones that designed the rest of his car) specified for a Dart with a big block. I think they will do just fine.
Click to expand...

That argument only has any merit if your car is 100% factory. Same skinny bias ply tires, same horsepower, ALL of it. And it still assumes the factory engineers didn’t make any mistakes (they did) or that the bean counters didn’t change things for sales and marketing, which they also did. The factories do not make perfect cars, they generally make the cheapest car they think they can sell without getting sued.

Even the standard all season radials people run like the BFG T/A’s have significantly more grip than the factory bias ply’s did. And of course if you run wider, taller tires than factory that changes everything too. And add more horsepower.

Most modern cars, and I’m talking basic commuters not performance cars, have a wheel rate around 200 lbs/in give or take a bit based on weight. A lot of them also have sway bars in addition to that. That’s basically a 1” torsion bar on these cars.
 
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