It's okay Bob. "He that tooteth not his own horn, the same shall not be tooted."
Max horsepower with EQ heads?
- Thread starter gregsdart
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RAMM
Well-Known Member
I'm a skeptical person by nature and have kicked many a "salesman" off my property. This used to horrify my wife and kids but I have taught them over the years that nothing is free and you have to ask yourself "What are they getting out of this?" Sorry a little off topic but I feel this sentiment is shared by IQ and myself.
I don't see the high side of 600HP happening with EQ's and a "portjob". We all know that achieving 80-85% of total potential is relatively easy. So lets say 500-525hp 408 with EQ's is easy that would represent 80-85% POT. Now ramp that up to 90% and you are sitting @ 550 hp IMO. Ramp again to 95% and youre tickling 600hp. Ask any serious race engine builder what it takes going after that last 5%----MEGA time/money and the real kick in the balls is that you may never get there. In fact IME going after that last 5% you often go backwards and make LESS power only to learn a bunch and get tired of that kicked in the balls feeling.
Having said that---I am as curious as a cat and would love to see you try. I'm about to embark on a personal challenge of building a 600HP NA 318. I view my goal easier to attain than yours-and that's a major hint right there. 4" stroke is not the way IMO. J.Rob
I believe you are right. I was there the day my dad was testing a crank scraper on his 357ci/340. Compression should have been around 12:1, W2's (unknown flow rates), don't remember who's W2 intake, solid flat tappet, Murry Jensen modified 4150 ..........610HP.........and that was in 1977 I believe. It was along time ago to remember the exact year, but no later than 1980.
RAMM
Well-Known Member
You guys are not wrong W2's kick serious *** due to that amazing bowl and S.S. But 575 hp is not way out in left field either. I've seen (I didn't build it) a good W2 and 3.79" stroke program almost tickle 700 HP in an X block. Again , I would still love to see an EQ try. J.Rob
RAMM
Well-Known Member
The problem here is the way the EQ's are cast. It is not possible to easily plug the pushrod hole as it is an irregular opening in the EQ's. I have begged Eric @ EQ to send me a pair of heads that "missed" the pushrod machining operation to no avail. I also have asked Eric to cast these in aluminum and price them below Edelbrocks and watch Edelbrock cease to sell any smallblock heads at all. Apparently an aluminum version is a real possibility. J.Rob
An aluminum EQ head would be nice. As to the iron head's pushrod hole.....yeah, it involves machining a much larger round hole, then wedging and sealing an aluminum dowel between the port runner and the intake manifold bolt boss. The whole operation would be much easier on the Indy LAX head where the pushrod hole is enclosed all 360 degrees. In 2010 there was a LAX head part number for an offset pushrod hole. I shoulda bought a few of those heads back then.
I would love to try, but budget and the fact that i have a just freshened bb (with some very expensive updates) to race says not in the cards. But i am curious what you think my pile of leftovers would do for power . In my first post i mentioned them; vacuum pump, hat injection on a Tunnelram running methanol, and lets just say Santa would put the valvetrain under the tree Brian used on the 606 hp build. Looking at the domes needed to get 13+ compression makes me think going higher compression might not be a good move, so say 13.5/1. Or possibly 14/1 as the chosen ratio. RAMM, when you mentioned 600 hp were you considering the vacuum pump and TR with methanol?
And on that last 5 percent; i have a sore butt from trying to make my 528 go faster. We do indeed go backwards a lot once we get close to 100 percent. In my case I flat ran out of racing budget.
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dirty white boy
50 yr old Juvenal delinquent
hope your gonna share that 600hp 318 build!!
Brian Hafliger
Well-Known Member
Funny that 600+HP is not considered possible when we already did it...also funny that when we first started tuning the 393, I was beside myself that we didn't make 600 right away...I had to tune my *** off to get 606HP! It was not easy, and had I put more compression, more cam, and a vac. pump in this thing, 650HP would most likely not been realized! But 606 for an engine with a head on it that has min. X section of 2.2 is DAMN good! We used every bit of the port area to get this power and I didn't even do much of anything to the intake manifold. This was a test of what could be had easily, without a ton of $$$ (even though it was still expensive) with the iron heads...This effort with Indy W2 heads would yield 75HP more and cost only about 1500. more. I can't wait to see TF's second offering for the little mopar!!
Brian, what do you think the 606 hp build would have produced, given it got a tunnelram, vacuum pump, ultimate cam, and the highest compression that would work well? Do you think methanol will work well with the small port size?
I'm curious about Brian's answer also. But are we still talking about EQ heads or the RHS/IndyX head that Brian was running? Because, with the same head casting that Brian was using I know that at least 629 HP is possible. We did that with 2.5 points of compression less, 10 degrees less cam and .050" less lift.........on 91 octane pump gas! If you want to run that LAX/MAX head, I'm sure you can get well over 600 HP. I've work with them both now, and they are not the same head!
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The pictures in the artical showwd a similar port to an EQ, and they had magnum style intake bolt holes. I assumed they may be EQ castings modified by Indy and sold under the lax name?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
famous bob
mopar misfit
-----------LOL , first laugh of the morning !d
Brian Hafliger
Well-Known Member
True I used the Indy head for that article...I work with both heads almost everyday, biggest difference is the short turn height on the EQ head is taller than the Indy...My cnc port fit's in both heads, so they end up flowing the same on the intake side, chamber is damn near identical, and ex. port is very good on both heads. So power should be comparable but I have never done a max effort deal with the EQ head...this would make a very good test! I still have the 393 short block just as it ran with the Indy heads. Might have to look into this further with Eric. I would also love to test different intakes against the Indy just to see where they end up.
o1heavy
1974 dart sport
unless I'm mistaken you sold me those very heads for my 408
but sadly they are still in my closet
long story
but when they get used they should be in a well setup dart sport and I will tuning for max e.t
Krooser
Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...
Well this deal was built for the '94 racing season and had a Purple shaft cam.. there are lots better out there today. Mike Jones is grinding mine ...the specs on his cams seem pretty mild but the secret is in the ramps and the timing not the 'big' numbers. My kid's B-mod sure opened some eyes during his first time on the track with one of Mike's cams.
Not sure what headers were on the engine when it was on the dyno... likely were owned by the shop and used on many different motors. it's likely under chassis deals... we run a different set-up than on a street car. I have a couple different sets... one Schoenfeld and another unknown brand.
I think I can bump the HP up over 600 with the new cam and I'd like to try an 850 carb (I have an ancient BG allky carb now). And you know a dyno never won a race so I use those numbers as a benchmark to tune from there forward.
My heads only flow around 280 on the intake... there's more to gained there.
I bought this motor used, and blown up, so it will be freshened in my shop then back to the original builder for a couple dyno runs... he still has the same dyno so I we can get accurate numbers ( he sez he may have the original dyno sheets in his records... he had the original build sheets)
IQ52 care to share the specs on that build?
629 hp is more than enough to push my 3000 lb car and driver to 10.00, which would be where I want to be.
B3422w5
Well-Known Member
I think a 600 horse N/A 318 build is very possible.Know its been done with a 340
I had an enginemasters build 318 in a 71 Duster i sold this past spring( google...... LA Confidential Mopar) to read about the build. Excellent attention to detail.
The motor made 477 at Enginemasters competition. Was only 10.44 to 1 compression with iron Magnum Rt heads. More compression, roller cam, better heads could have made a bunch more power.
Impressive little motor. Went mid 11's in my streeter 3400 pound car.
Oh way to go J.Rob. Christmas is coming and you are now officially on my naughty list. The owner of the NACCBPPEQ360 saw this post and is sending me a tunnel ram. The owner was nice about not necessarily expecting another 30-40 horsepower. But, somebody is going to expect it because, "J.Rob said......" and now little Jimmy is going to be expected to produce.
Merry 'Grinch'mas everybody!
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
RAMM
Well-Known Member
Well I did say GOOD T-ram so it will depend heavily on what you were sent. Capiche? Oh and its too early to say anything about Christmas, or turn on lights, or decorate. J.Rob
Hey! I've got a tunnelram you can try! Its off a B1 motor but i have adapters,,,,,,ought to be worth at least 50 hp
EddieSketti
Well-Known Member
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