Metal Bonding Questions

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CoronetRTguy

CoronetRTguy

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Hey everyone I have a question on doing metal bonding. I know this stuff has come a long way since my dad and myself used it.

I think we used it about 8-9 years ago on my 70 Torino Cobra SCJ car. We welded one full quarter panel and a rep came in and said to try this stuff on our panels.

These where full panels (not to the sail) and where good size panels. My dad asked me if I wanted to give it a try.

We put this stuff on some metal in the shop and we could not no matter what we did pull it part.

I know you have to do metal prep just as if you where welding and you also still have to do some spot welds to the panels.

Tell me have any of you guys used any of this stuff as of late?

What are the results if you have used it?

I remember the panels looked great as there was no real heat to warp them and the panel looked factory like it had never been off the car and replaced.

I saw this being talked about on Moparts.com and thought I would see if anyone has used the stuff in the last year or so and what you think about it.

Im still going to weld my panels in like the trunk, trunk extensions and wheel housing but I may use this on my quarters.

This will give it a smooth area and no chance of warping.
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CoronetRTguy said:
Hey everyone I have a question on doing metal bonding. I know this stuff has come a long way since my dad and myself used it.

I think we used it about 8-9 years ago on my 70 Torino Cobra SCJ car. We welded one full quarter panel and a rep came in and said to try this stuff on our panels.

These where full panels (not to the sail) and where good size panels. My dad asked me if I wanted to give it a try.

We put this stuff on some metal in the shop and we could not no matter what we did pull it part.

I know you have to do metal prep just as if you where welding and you also still have to do some spot welds to the panels.

Tell me have any of you guys used any of this stuff as of late?

What are the results if you have used it?

I remember the panels looked great as there was no real heat to warp them and the panel looked factory like it had never been off the car and replaced.

I saw this being talked about on Moparts.com and thought I would see if anyone has used the stuff in the last year or so and what you think about it.

Im still going to weld my panels in like the trunk, trunk extensions and wheel housing but I may use this on my quarters.

This will give it a smooth area and no chance of warping.

progress.gif
Click to expand...

I have not used any of the stuff on the aftermarket, though I do know that most cars now a days have panels bonded on them. One of the divisions of the company I work for use to sell the machines that go on the robots for the panel bonding robots.
 
Done properly it seems to work nicely. One of the Mopar mags used it to install a Challenger quarter lower skin awhile back. It's recommended procedure on certain panels on late model cars.
Dallas
 
Yeah the new epoxies work well from what I have read. I also read the Charger artical where they did the whole 1/4 panel replacement with it.
I personally like fire/heat for joining metal. It brings out the primative man in me. :naka:
 
The episode of MuscleCar that was on TV this weekend used bonding to replace the damaged roofskin of a repopped '68 Mustang that will be used in a track car build. They were talking about how good the new adhesives are but also recommended tacking down the front portion of the new roofskin at the A-pillars just to guarantee there wouldn't be any possible lifting.
 
ocdart said:
The episode of MuscleCar that was on TV this weekend used bonding to replace the damaged roofskin of a repopped '68 Mustang that will be used in a track car build. They were talking about how good the new adhesives are but also recommended tacking down the front portion of the new roofskin at the A-pillars just to guarantee there wouldn't be any possible lifting.
Click to expand...

Yeah that is where I saw it this weekend and it got me to thinking and I remembered well we used something like that on my 70 Torino Cobra SCJ car and it worked great.

I know you have to weld plug holes and in some areas when using it. I think I may try it on my quarter and weld in the spots it says and maybe a few extra areas.
 
are we taking about like a hole through the panel and adheasing new metal behind it on cuting it out and adhease the panel to the qrt with ittle welding i might beable to do this if that what ur talking about
 
The stuff my mopar bud Dana uses is called 141 fusure or something like that, I have helped him use it on all types of panels, it will NOT come loose. it is a 2 part stuff with a big plastic applicator that looks like a caulk gun. You MUST apply some serious pressure to the stuff to keep the panel tight while setting because once it's on there if you mess up you will have to cut the panel off and start over. This stuff is not joke so be careful with it. I will get the exact name/part number and post soon.
 
I saw the show this weekend where they did the roof on the stang, cool stuff!
Kiss, It's like gluing the panel on where the original seem is. They glued the thing on and welded it at the a-pillars for safety. IMHO it would be better than having bare metal with spot welds where moisture could get between the two pieces. I've seen some testing where they glue 2 pieces together and "pull" it apart...the metal tears before the glue lets go....
 
I used it quite a bit on a build I am doing. I also took auto body class and they use it almost exclusively. I like it better...no warpage. I used a pencil eraser to imitate tack welds..could not tell a difference and it made a cleaner job..
 
Both Hysol and 3M make products used in the aerospace industry to bond metal panels, and they are about impossible to pull apart if bonded properly. One of 3M's products is Scotchweld. If you are interested in bonding, these are good possiblities.
 
I used a combination of bonding and welding when I replaced my quarter. 3M and Lord Fusor are the two most common manufacturers. Talk to your auto body paint supplier about it. If you bond in the middle of a panel somewhere you need to do it in such a way as to avoid the seam ghosting through the finished piece.
 
I've been using Duramix for years,but since 3M bought Duramix out,I switched to SEM, I've tried Fuzor and was not impressed at all, so I use SEM, the stuff works great,especially when used to replace roof skins, floors,quarters. It nearly eliminates the welding,grinding and cleaning up the welds,

Keep in mind, that you must weld corners on each panel you're bonding,and when replacing quarters or roof skin,the seam on sail panel must be welded,instead of glued, because it will show after a while,it won't crack, but seam will be visible,

Stefan
 
Yeah we use it all the time at the body shop where I work... That is how you install bedsides. works great! As a matter of fact I used some leftover to glue in my trunk pan. See my thread for pics... But I forgot to take one of actually gluing it in.
 
Thanks everyone for the info and real work experince of using it. Im still doing some research on this as to where and how I will use it.

I do have to weld in a few spots as a few of have said. I think this is the wave of the future and in our car hobby anything to help in not warping and keep it clean with no moisture is a good thing.

keep the info coming guys and I will have to try and find your pics bjkadron.
 
63VALIANT*KISS said:
are we taking about like a hole through the panel and adheasing new metal behind it on cuting it out and adhease the panel to the qrt with ittle welding i might beable to do this if that what ur talking about
Click to expand...

Kiss, I was thinking about doing exactly what you described, because I am removing all the mouldings off my 63 dart gt. So I sent a e-mail to 3m and they do not recommend using the adhesive to bond a piece of metal behind a hole. The said you will end up seeing the repair over time due to the rate of expansion between the metal and adhesive.
 
I have used some stuff called Vette Adhesive about 25 years ago.A friend and I put some fiberglass 1/4,s on a 69 GTO.Mixed like bondo and was very strong,mind ya this was back in the early 80,s.I,m sure 3M is making some powerful stuff now.:read2:
 
Is SEM better to use then 3m or Fusor? I will be doing a little welding if I use this stuff and if I dont use the bonding I will spot weld in the trunk pans the way they where and the wheel housing.

Now if I wanted to use it on all the parts would it be ok?

I have to put these panels on as follows-

Trunk Pan
Trunk Extension
Wheel Housing
Quarter Panels

Now if I can use it on all these and do a little welding like in the pressure areas then I will do that.

I need to wait till spring when I can get to the car and really look it over and see how my panels are going to line up and if I get a good solid line up on them. These panels where not made by AMD they where bought 6-9 years ago.

I had a stroke in the middle of doing this restoration and the car has sat that long in my garage.

Im just trying to figure the best way to go about doing the job myself vs having someone else do it. I might be able to weld but I really dont want to take the chance of warping the panels bad. My dad said he would help but with his eye site Im just not that sure we will get it done that way without warping it bad.

I think bonding is the wave of the future in our hobby not just in new cars.
 
I've been following this thread and have a couple questions also.
I am grafting 72 'cuda scoops to a Dart hood, would this work
for this application?
The plan is to cut out the Dart hood, flange the edges and set the 'cuda skin
down in it.
Not having to weld it in would be a lot easier to control warpage,
and I could still fill the seam properly?

hood 075.jpg


hood 077.jpg
 
CoronetRTguy said:
Is SEM better to use then 3m or Fusor? I will be doing a little welding if I use this stuff and if I dont use the bonding I will spot weld in the trunk pans the way they where and the wheel housing.

Now if I wanted to use it on all the parts would it be ok?

I have to put these panels on as follows-

Trunk Pan
Trunk Extension
Wheel Housing
Quarter Panels

Now if I can use it on all these and do a little welding like in the pressure areas then I will do that.

I need to wait till spring when I can get to the car and really look it over and see how my panels are going to line up and if I get a good solid line up on them. These panels where not made by AMD they where bought 6-9 years ago.

I had a stroke in the middle of doing this restoration and the car has sat that long in my garage.

Im just trying to figure the best way to go about doing the job myself vs having someone else do it. I might be able to weld but I really dont want to take the chance of warping the panels bad. My dad said he would help but with his eye site Im just not that sure we will get it done that way without warping it bad.

I think bonding is the wave of the future in our hobby not just in new cars.
Click to expand...

Any of the 3 should work just fine, out of the three I like SEM and 3M,I just didn't like the glass beads in Fuzor,

As for welding, I'd only do spots welds on corners ,that's all, just make sure there is no adhesive atleast 1 inch away from where you plan welding

Stefan
 
longarm said:
I've been following this thread and have a couple questions also.
I am grafting 72 'cuda scoops to a Dart hood, would this work
for this application?
The plan is to cut out the Dart hood, flange the edges and set the 'cuda skin
down in it.
Not having to weld it in would be a lot easier to control warpage,
and I could still fill the seam properly?
Click to expand...

That will be one interesting looking hood when done.

I'd advise using Marine-Tex to graft hood skins, the metal bonding adhesive will show the seam in the paint after a while,it won't crack, or anything, the reason the seam shows is because metal expands and contracts different from the adhesive under various temperatures, where Marine-Tex will not,I've done some grafting and molding with Marine-Tex and that stuff is amazing, but gets very expensive on big projects. If you want to save money, you can use the metal bonding adhesive ,after it's cured,grind and smooth everything down and apply Marine-Tex over the seam, make sure when you're done sanding,you still have atleast 1/16th or more of it over the seam,

Stefan
 
I ran across Sealfast when I worked for an aircraft repair company. We were putting entire wing structures together with this stuff.

I've used it to seal holes in floor pans and to attach hood skins to the structural pieces underneath to keep them from drumming. Works great. Comes in cartridges and cans. Available directly from the manufacturer. I have no idea what the stuff runs these days since I have long since left the aircraft repair and maintenance biz.
 
Im still waiting for warm weather and getting back to the panels and linning them up and then move on to welding and metal bonding.

I know I will spot weld the trunk pan and I may put in some bonding not sure yet.

I need to look at all the panels and look to see what ones I will weld in and what ones I will bond in and spot weld.

I wonder how it will work on these panels-

Wheel housing

Trunk Extensions

Tell me your ideas on these parts?

Im also thinking maybe of bonding in the whole trunk pan if I can. I dont know if it can be done or not?

What about the rear cross member? I think that might be better off welded in but if bonding works just as good why not that to?
 
I use 3m 45 minute set.
It works great especially when you can't get a welder into all the spots. You need lots of clamps.
Test fit the panels a few times and use screws to hold into place. When gluing use the same screws. This aligns the panels.
Once the glue is set the panels will not come apart without destroying the metal
Good luck This is way faster than welding.
 
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