Motor plate thought?

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Kent mosby

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My 1973 scamp will be getting the motor installed soon. I was going to install from below with everything attached. Now I am considering a motor plate. I guess I could install as is and then install the motor plate. I will be getting the AR Engineering one from Mancini. My questions are..
1. Is there any benefit to keeping the motor mounts installed as well or is that not necessary.
2. I know that I need a spacer for the crankshaft pulley. What other spacers needed as well? Alternator? I have the AR alternator mount kit for Denso Alternators.
3. Is this going to create more problems with clearance of the fan to radiator?

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You can install the assembly from the bottom without the water pump & then install the motor plate , along with the water pump. It isn't necessary to use the motor mounts unless you just really want to. A 1/4" motor plate shouldn't cause any interference problems, you may have to space the alternator out for the 1/4" plate. If your goal is more of a street car rather than a race car, I would use the factory motor mounts as all of the vibration will be transmitted through the unibody with a motor plate. My Demon is motor & mid plated, but it's a full time race car. Good luck with your build.
 
Well, the ARE plate goes between the water pump housing and the block. I put mine in independent of the k frame. I am going with an HHR fan, so I can’t say much on that. I have the ati balancer and had to wait for a long time for the pulley from Doty Mfg. AndyF suggested getting ARP studs for the pump housing/motor plate hardware. I will not be using factory mounts
 
This is what I did:
Don't mess with pulley spacers, have your water pump housing milled 3/8" for the thickness of Andy's motor plate. Then all the accessories are in their stock locations.
I also highly recommend the studs. Much easier to R&R the water pump housing!
For mounts, check out the last page of "Make your own elephant ears" on BBD:
Make Your Own Elephant Ears Page 4 - Finished Product
P8060108.JPG
 
Also they recommend not to run the front plate without a mid plate. They say the motor moves to far front to rear w/o the mid plate. But it has been done for years Kim
 
My 1st motor plate big block 70 dart. I spaced the alt to get the proper alignment. Fan spacer can be shaved on the back/rear side to get the proper clearance if your running non-clutch type engine fan. you may (probably) will need new shorter bolts.
I didnt use a mid plate. I was worried about mid-flex/stress at trans/engine mount points, if the plates are thin or narrow and your making power, this can absolutely happen. I ran a tensioned torque strap as added security. car was street/strip.
2nd motor plate car - big block 72 scamp - lessons learned - shaved the water pump housing. ditched the conventional fan and went electric. bushed the plate/frame mounts. ran bellhousing plate. There is no need for factory motor mounts but mid plate or solid mid-braces is highly recommended, especially with any decent amount of HP.
just my $0.02
 
Fgill said:
My 1st motor plate big block 70 dart. I spaced the alt to get the proper alignment. Fan spacer can be shaved on the back/rear side to get the proper clearance if your running non-clutch type engine fan. you may (probably) will need new shorter bolts.
I didnt use a mid plate. I was worried about mid-flex/stress at trans/engine mount points, if the plates are thin or narrow and your making power, this can absolutely happen. I ran a tensioned torque strap as added security. car was street/strip.
2nd motor plate car - big block 72 scamp - lessons learned - shaved the water pump housing. ditched the conventional fan and went electric. bushed the plate/frame mounts. ran bellhousing plate. There is no need for factory motor mounts but mid plate or solid mid-braces is highly recommended, especially with any decent amount of HP.
just my $0.02
Click to expand...

A guy I know had a low 9 sec duster , he backed the carb off to 9.60`s . Never had a problem with a front plate , no mid plate and a reg trans mount on the 727 .
I have a 1/4'' plate , I milled the water pump off about .260 , to allow for the plate and an extra set of gaskets , the 440/505 was race balanced at hughs engines , you cant feel it running with a 600 lift solid street roller in it . I did make a pair of engine limiters for fore and aft movement , and run a normal 727 trans. mount .
Probly never get it hooked up anyway , didnt tub it when I built it ---------
IMG_0469 (3).JPG
 
DrCharles said:
This is what I did:
Don't mess with pulley spacers, have your water pump housing milled 3/8" for the thickness of Andy's motor plate. Then all the accessories are in their stock locations.
I also highly recommend the studs. Much easier to R&R the water pump housing!
For mounts, check out the last page of "Make your own elephant ears" on BBD:
Make Your Own Elephant Ears Page 4 - Finished Product
View attachment 1715484914
Click to expand...
Did u make the insulation mounts for ur motor plate? Thanks
 
Just a thought, what about a solid drivers side mount and everything else new rubber mounts. Fore and Aft mount strap and be done with it. I would really think that would take care of movement and still have so vibration isolation.
 
cuda620 said:
Did u make the insulation mounts for ur motor plate? Thanks
Click to expand...

I did. It's been a while but I think the red bushings are PST poly strut rod bushings.
The mounts are pieces of 2" angle iron welded together, then bolted to the frame rail (with a thick-wall tubing spacer through the rail to prevent crushing when the bolt is torqued securely.

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P5250226.jpg
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DrCharles said:
This is what I did:
Don't mess with pulley spacers, have your water pump housing milled 3/8" for the thickness of Andy's motor plate. Then all the accessories are in their stock locations.
I also highly recommend the studs. Much easier to R&R the water pump housing!
For mounts, check out the last page of "Make your own elephant ears" on BBD:
Make Your Own Elephant Ears Page 4 - Finished Product
View attachment 1715484914
Click to expand...

Holy crap I am stupid sometimes!!! LOLOL
 
Demonracer said:
You can install the assembly from the bottom without the water pump & then install the motor plate , along with the water pump. It isn't necessary to use the motor mounts unless you just really want to. A 1/4" motor plate shouldn't cause any interference problems, you may have to space the alternator out for the 1/4" plate. If your goal is more of a street car rather than a race car, I would use the factory motor mounts as all of the vibration will be transmitted through the unibody with a motor plate. My Demon is motor & mid plated, but it's a full time race car. Good luck with your build.
Click to expand...
O r , u can cut/mill 1/4'' off the waterpump housing like I did ------------no vibration issues at all , cant feel a thing-
IMG_0474 (1).JPG
 
Nice work DrCharles! Has anyone used the trans dapt engine swap mounts? Any problems? Thanks!
 
DrCharles said:
I did. It's been a while but I think the red bushings are PST poly strut rod bushings.
The mounts are pieces of 2" angle iron welded together, then bolted to the frame rail (with a thick-wall tubing spacer through the rail to prevent crushing when the bolt is torqued securely.

View attachment 1715582622 View attachment 1715582623 View attachment 1715582624 View attachment 1715582625
Click to expand...

Now, I don’t know much about anything, but was told not to use nutserts for structural applications. In keeping with my theme of not knowing much about anything, I have no clue what kind of loads would be put on that 1/4”? screw/bolt.

I also found that semi truck frames are assembled with Huck brand fasteners, which are basically big badass nutserts. I’d be interested to see engineering data on various types of nutserts, not that I’d be able to decipher any of it. :lol:
 
Jesus Chrysler said:
Now, I don’t know much about anything, but was told not to use nutserts for structural applications. In keeping with my theme of not knowing much about anything, I have no clue what kind of loads would be put on that 1/4”? screw/bolt.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't use nutserts either! That rail sheet metal is pretty thin.
I used 3/8" Grade 8 bolts, a thick wall spacer as noted (just a hair below flush with both the top and bottom), a flat washer, lockwasher and nut underneath the rail. This is the view looking straight down before bolting the mount on.

P5250226.jpg
 
DrCharles said:
I wouldn't use nutserts either! That rail sheet metal is pretty thin.
I used 3/8" Grade 8 bolts, a thick wall spacer as noted (just a hair below flush with both the top and bottom), a flat washer, lockwasher and nut underneath the rail. This is the view looking straight down before bolting the mount on.

View attachment 1715674828
Click to expand...

Gotcha! I honestly didn’t read I was just looking at pictures and thought your spacer was a nutsert!
 
DrCharles said:
I wouldn't use nutserts either! That rail sheet metal is pretty thin.
I used 3/8" Grade 8 bolts, a thick wall spacer as noted (just a hair below flush with both the top and bottom), a flat washer, lockwasher and nut underneath the rail. This is the view looking straight down before bolting the mount on.

View attachment 1715674828
Click to expand...

That looks great! I've got a question though if you don't mind. Is there a reason why you left the front side attached?

upload_2021-1-21_17-24-50.png
 
Used original type elephant ears in late 80's.
But from 1/2" aluminum with milled down area 3/8" where attached to water pump.
There is a little flex under heavy load
But still together and running today...lol
 
DrCharles said:
I wouldn't use nutserts either! That rail sheet metal is pretty thin.
I used 3/8" Grade 8 bolts, a thick wall spacer as noted (just a hair below flush with both the top and bottom), a flat washer, lockwasher and nut underneath the rail. This is the view looking straight down before bolting the mount on.

View attachment 1715674828
Click to expand...
if doing this again drill the small (3/8) hole on top of the rail and feed the tube up from below. that way the top of the rail is sandwiched between the tube and the new mount so it can't 'shuffle' at all once assembled. basically the same as when fitting a towbar that bolts to a unibody chassis rail, the side of the chassis that the towbar bolts to is sandwiched in place.
neil.
 
mygasser said:
if doing this again drill the small (3/8) hole on top of the rail and feed the tube up from below. that way the top of the rail is sandwiched between the tube and the new mount so it can't 'shuffle' at all once assembled. basically the same as when fitting a towbar that bolts to a unibody chassis rail, the side of the chassis that the towbar bolts to is sandwiched in place.
neil.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip :) It's not going anywhere with the bolt torqued down so the spacer compresses between the mount bracket and the washer underneath the rail. I made it nearly a press fit, too.
Wouldn't it be more inclined to move around if the top end of the spacer wasn't secured in the frame rail hole, though?
 
DrCharles said:
Thanks for the tip :) It's not going anywhere with the bolt torqued down so the spacer compresses between the mount bracket and the washer underneath the rail. I made it nearly a press fit, too.
Wouldn't it be more inclined to move around if the top end of the spacer wasn't secured in the frame rail hole, though?
Click to expand...
no, because the top of the tube is clamped against the underside of the top surface of the frame rail which only has a 3/8 hole. the tube is bigger than 3/8. although your way should be perfectly fine if you were to for example side step the clutch pedal (if using a manual trans') the torque could move the tube elongating the hole in the top of the frame. welding the tube would of course eliminate any possible issues.
i like the poly bushed mounts by the way.
neil.
 
The 3/8" bolt is more likely to elongate the hole in the top of the frame rail than the 9/16" tube... I think you're worrying too much about nothing. This isn't a 2000 hp Pro Mod.
I got the idea from the BBD pages on "Make your own elephant ears".
 
DrCharles said:
The 3/8" bolt is more likely to elongate the hole in the top of the frame rail than the 9/16" tube... I think you're worrying too much about nothing. This isn't a 2000 hp Pro Mod.
I got the idea from the BBD pages on "Make your own elephant ears".
Click to expand...
i agree it won't be a problem for you, i just wanted to point it out for anyone reading your post. wasn't trying to diss your car at all, it looks great and no offence intended :thumbsup:
neil.
 
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