Motor Swap on a 63

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Charlietmb

Charlietmb

63 Valiant Signet 200
Joined
Nov 5, 2019
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Location
Courtenay. BC
Looking for some advice please:

Does anyone have any experience with doing a motor swap on a 1963 valiant signet 200 A Body, Canadian made?

Took out the 225 slant 6 and putting in a 1965 valiant 273 V-8.


Issues is the distributor hitting the firewall. So I need about an 1” or so...

I have been told putting in different motor mounts will not do anything, the motor mounts are the same... the engine looks like it is sitting in the correct position.

Will changing out the frontend cross member do anything?

Can I “modify” the firewall without making the whipper motor no-functional?
 
Not sure about the firewall and a hammer...... but you will also need a center/drag link from an early A v8 car.
 
I put a 408 in my 63, although my 63 is American model. Yes, firewall needs modification for distributor. I don't believe motor mount changes or cross member or anything else will cure this. We had to cut the firewall and refabricate in a section. I have heard others have used a 64 firewall donor and pieced in a section from it.
 
No, the wiper motor is in the same piece of real estate that the distributor needs. You can modify the firewall to duplicate the 64-66 firewall where the wiper motor mounts differently inside. There's also a member here who has shortened his distributor to work. That's a little more in depth than most people can do at home, but it was really cool. Option number 3, which I am rather fond of is simple. Put a V8 in there that requires no firewall or distributor mods at all. A 383. Distributor in the front, bolt in swap with the right mount kit, 68-69 B body HP manifolds are almost a drop in fit. Why there aren't more big block early A bodies I have no idea. It's so easy to do.
 
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Here's a few pictures of what we did. Wiper motor in original spot. Cut below, and reweld, fill and repaint. We learned the hard way, already had the engine bay painted. Distributer is Summit but now have a Performance world one which is actually larger diameter cap on it.

IMG_20160408_184424.jpg


IMG_20160121_161307.jpg


IMG_20160517_192026.jpg
 
Sorry, i think the middle picture above in post 5 is from prefit of engine before we cut, with engine not all the way back.
IMG_20160517_192032.jpg
This picture is 'after' picture.
 
The reason you are having issues is the 63's never had a v8 under the hood. 64 was the first year for a V8. The firewall wasn't designed for it. Yes, you will have to modify.
 
reddog said:
I put a 408 in my 63, although my 63 is American model. Yes, firewall needs modification for distributor. I don't believe motor mount changes or cross member or anything else will cure this. We had to cut the firewall and refabricate in a section. I have heard others have used a 64 firewall donor and pieced in a section from it.
Click to expand...
Yes, I have the exact same car but in blue...lol...From what I have been told the cnd version is the dart frame so just a bit longer and possibly a bit wider. Tnx for the pictures, - so when you cut it below the wiper motor, how much did you have to move it in to make it work - Tnx
 
As RRR mentioned... shortened Dist.
That's what I did. Magnum 5.2 or 5.9 distributor modified to accept the LA parts with MSD electronics.
Mag Dist cap is smaller in diameter too.
it's an expensive mod, for sure but, also a perfect solution if you wanted to maintain your OE firewall.
20180323_144808.jpg

20180323_135415.jpg
 
I guess the 65 Valiant must be different cuz for me, in 1973 or so, a 340 dropped right into the hole, that the slanty had just vacated.
I sure wouldn't let a lil firewall get in the way of a V8 swap. But a 273 wouldn't be my V8 of choice, either.
Huh, that's about 46 or more years ago....... criminy I'm getting old.
 
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Charlietmb said:
Yes, I have the exact same car but in blue...lol...From what I have been told the cnd version is the dart frame so just a bit longer and possibly a bit wider. Tnx for the pictures, - so when you cut it below the wiper motor, how much did you have to move it in to make it work - Tnx
Click to expand...

I bet we moved in 1.5 to 2" at least. You can see the before picture here and also 63GT pic in post 10. We cut along the crease just below the crescent bracket and also some vertical cuts below to allow both pieces to push in - see previous pics. Then rewelded. You can see the bracket in the 'after' pictures (post 6) is now more vertical than before.

So now, i just measured about 1" clearance from new distributer head to the firewall just below the crescent bracket (probably had 1.5" clearance with the summit distributer.

I like the shortened distributer idea. If i had to do again i would look at that. But firewall mod not so bad.

IMG_20151215_151359.jpg
 
'63GT said:
As RRR mentioned... shortened Dist.
That's what I did. Magnum 5.2 or 5.9 distributor modified to accept the LA parts with MSD electronics.
Mag Dist cap is smaller in diameter too.
it's an expensive mod, for sure but, also a perfect solution if you wanted to maintain your OE firewall.
View attachment 1715429813
View attachment 1715429812
Click to expand...

Please forgive me sir. I can NEVER remember who did that and I think it is one of the coolest mods ever. Thinking outside the box.
 
Charlietmb said:
Hi - sorry not sure what you mean by a center drag link - could you describe that for me - tnx

View attachment 1715429810
Click to expand...

The center link might be a piece you end up not needing. On my 65, mine went right in. The oil pan was close to the 6 cylinder center link, but it didn't touch. It all depends on which mounts you use and the car itself. The tolerances on these old cars are different car to car, so what might not work for one, may work on another. In other words, don't let some A-hole charge you a stupid high price for a part you may not end up needing. I wouldn't pay any more for 150 shipped for one at the absolute MOST and I've seen them here for almost twice that. Ridiculous. I would clearance the oil pan or shim the motor mounts first.
 
reddog said:
I bet we moved in 1.5 to 2" at least. You can see the before picture here and also 63GT pic in post 10. We cut along the crease just below the crescent bracket and also some vertical cuts below to allow both pieces to push in - see previous pics. Then rewelded. You can see the bracket in the 'after' pictures (post 6) is now more vertical than before.

So now, i just measured about 1" clearance from new distributer head to the firewall just below the crescent bracket (probably had 1.5" clearance with the summit distributer.

I like the shortened distributer idea. If i had to do again i would look at that. But firewall mod not so bad.

View attachment 1715429992
Click to expand...


Very innovative. Nice work. Evidently, this mod didn't affect the angle of the wiper linkage to the point there was a problem. I probably wouldn't have done this for that fear alone right there, but yall just stomped right through it. That's great.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Very innovative. Nice work. Evidently, this mod didn't affect the angle of the wiper linkage to the point there was a problem. I probably wouldn't have done this for that fear alone right there, but yall just stomped right through it. That's great.
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I think there might have been some minor linkage mods required inside. Wipers optional anyway! Can't remember all the little issues we had unless i have pictures even though it only happened a couple years ago. The firewall mods were minor compared to the trans tunnel for the tremec.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Please forgive me sir. I can NEVER remember who did that and I think it is one of the coolest mods ever. Thinking outside the box.
Click to expand...

It's all good RRR . I'm just glad someone remembered :lol:
 
Reddog,
I agree with RatRod..
You did what I failed to do. I'm glad you had the stones to do it.. so I can see it :)
 
AJ, the reason the 65 had no issues is that the 64-up had a different firewall to allow for the v8.

The center link will have to be changed. It is shallower. Keep an eye out. I just picked a V8 center link up in nice shape for $40CDN. (I am prepping for eventual 273V8 swap in my 63 Dart as well) They are out there for reasonable prices, just have to watch for them.

As OP stated, the Canadian valiant did use the Dart shell, adding the valiant dash and front clip.

I like the distributor mod as well and plan to follow '63GT's method if I can. Looks like it's worth the effort.

To the OP, nice car by the way.
 
Found a pic of the center link for you, The one that is just about straight is for the /6 and the one that drops down is the V8 center link, this is to allow for oil pan clearance.

center link compare.jpg
 
'63GT said:
As RRR mentioned... shortened Dist.
That's what I did. Magnum 5.2 or 5.9 distributor modified to accept the LA parts with MSD electronics.
Mag Dist cap is smaller in diameter too.
it's an expensive mod, for sure but, also a perfect solution if you wanted to maintain your OE firewall.
View attachment 1715429813
View attachment 1715429812
Click to expand...
63GT,
Am i missing something? You mentioned this was an expensive mod. I'm seeing new distributor for under $50. Are you referencing the MSD hardware? If so what did you add?
Thanks in advance, I'm in the process of replacing /6 with 273 myself. This was super helpful and encouraging!
 
At some point, V8 and slant six center links were the same; can't remember what year (thinking 66). Otherwise, everything is pretty much the same except for the firewall. 63 is different than 64-66; as said above, there was no V8 option in 63, and there's a hump in the 63 firewall right where the V8's distributor needs to go. One other thing is that 64-66 V8's had cable throttle, while 63-66 slant sixes had bellcrank. On 64 and later, it's eazy peazy to swap to the V8 setup. Firewall is already dimpled where you need to drill a few holes, then the V8 firewall stuff bolts right in, and you run a V8 pedal. (Of course, all of this is harder to find than it used to be.) But the 63's firewall electrical junction is right in the way of the V8 pedal setup. However, you can trim a later A body (67-76) swing pedal, drill an extra hole or two, bolt it to the firewall and send the cable through the hole where the slant six bellcrank went. And if you want to go a bit further, you can cut off the swing pedal and weld a 64-66 V8 spoon in its place. Then you just bolt the V8 pedal to the floor and you're ready to go. First pic below shows the later A body plate trimmed and bolted to the firewall, with the V8 spoon welded on. V8 floor pedal is pulled back so you can see the firewall setup. This was taken before I replaced the firewall insulation. Second pic shows setup with new insulation and V8 floor pedal in place. Last pic shows what it looks like from up top. Most people will never know it's not factory.

DSCF0016.jpg


20191115_135321.jpg


20191115_135303.jpg
 
63DropTop said:
63GT,
Am i missing something? You mentioned this was an expensive mod. I'm seeing new distributor for under $50. Are you referencing the MSD hardware? If so what did you add?
Thanks in advance, I'm in the process of replacing /6 with 273 myself. This was super helpful and encouraging!
Click to expand...

My apologies for the extremely late response... (not getting notifications..)
Yes, new Mag dist is about $50, less if you hunt around.
The expense I mentioned is due to the machine work required to the Mag Dist housing to get the LA hardware to fit. (Mech adv and shortened shaft, custom breaker plate, modified LA rotor and pick-up reluctor 'star', etc)
If you're still interested, I posted some of the particulars on an earlier post. (somewhere?)
Perhaps you already found it. if not, I'll see if I can locate it, or just re-post.
 
'63GT said:
My apologies for the extremely late response... (not getting notifications..)
Yes, new Mag dist is about $50, less if you hunt around.
The expense I mentioned is due to the machine work required to the Mag Dist housing to get the LA hardware to fit. (Mech adv and shortened shaft, custom breaker plate, modified LA rotor and pick-up reluctor 'star', etc)
If you're still interested, I posted some of the particulars on an earlier post. (somewhere?)
Perhaps you already found it. if not, I'll see if I can locate it, or just re-post.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. I think I'll tap out at this point and stick with /6. Thanks for all the information, definitely saved me a ton of frustration!
 
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