My '65 Formula S Data Sheet

[dibbons]

Any inaccuracies?


1965 Plymouth Barracuda Formula S Information Sheet

Engine: Commando 273ci 4.5L 4bbl V8/12-15 mpg
Length: 15 feet 8 inches (188.2”) (477.5 CM) Width: 70.1 inches
Height: 54.4 inches Wheelbase: 106 inches
Tread front 55.9 inches Tread rear 55.6 inches
Wheel turns lock-to-lock 3.5 (power steering)
Five lug 4 inch bolt pattern wheels
Fuel Tank 18 gallons and shipping weight 3,030 lbs.
California License Plate: 6JFC507
Vehicle Identification Number: V855142483

V = Valiant/Barracuda V8
8 = Barracuda
5 = Model Year 1965
5 = Los Angeles Assembly Plant
142483 = Sequential Production Number

1965 Dealer Price List:

Barracuda V8 $2,535.00
Formula S Pkg $ 258.00 (first available November 25, 1964)
Automatic $ 181.00
Power Brakes $ 42.60
Power Steering $ 82.50
3-Spoke Wheel $ 17.30
Tinted Glass $ 28.45
Racing Stripe $ 31.25
Padded Dash $ 16..35
Front/Rear Seat Belts $ 29.55
Air Conditioning $ 325.00
Basic group $ 84.45
Total $3,631.45 (excluding tax/license)
(group includes: Transaudio AM radio/antenna; w/s washer, w/variable speed wipers; outside driver’s manual mirror; day/nite inside mirror)

9,479 Commando vehicles built 1965: 4974 automatic; 4505 four-speed

Commando 273 4bbl V8 Specifications (AKA: A861 Power Pak)

Rated 235 horsepower @ 5,200 rpm & 280 lb-ft. of torque @ 4,000 rpm
(standard 180 horsepower @ 4,200 rpm & 260 lb-ft torque @ 1,600 rpm)

Dome top pistons (754 gm wt.) 10:5 to 1 compression w/premium gasoline
(standard 2bbl motor with 8.8 to 1 compression w/regular gasoline)

Solid lift camshaft .415/.425 & lift 248 degrees duration and 26° overlap
(standard 2bbl motor with .395/.405 lift & 240° duration and 16° overlap)

Carter AFB four-barrel carburetor 480 cfm rating 1.435’/1.560” bore sizes
(standard Carter BBD two-barrel carburetor)

Red engine paint, dual breaker point distributor, 10” chrome unsilenced air cleaner, chrome oil filler cap, finned wrinkle-finish valve covers, low-restriction single exhaust.
(standard single point distributor, silenced air cleaner, stock single exhaust)

Other “Formula S” Special Equipment Included:

Heavy duty front torsion bars & rear leaf springs, front stabilizer bar, firm-ride shock absorbers, dash mounted 6000 rpm tachometer, 6.95 x 14 special Goodyear blue streak tires on wide 14 x 5.5” wheels, simulated bolt-on type wheel covers, “Formula S” nameplates on front fenders.

Common Equipment to Standard and Formula S Models:

3.625” cylinder bore and 3.31” stroke (92.1 mm & 84.1 mm), forged crankshaft (56.6 lbs) 2.125” rod journal/2.50” main journal diameter, adjustable ductile-iron rocker arms (1.5 ratio), solid camshaft lifters, 9.60” block deck height, closed chamber cylinder heads with 1.78” intake and 1.50” exhaust valves, forged connecting rods 6.123” center to center length (720 gm wt.), 7 1/4” ring gear differential with self-adjusting 10” drum brakes (2.93, 3.23, 3.55 ratios available).

Commando Tune-UP:
Plugs Champion N-10Y @ 0.035” gap; Firing Order: 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
Timing 10° BTC; dwell 28-33; Idle 600 rpm; oil capacity 5 qts. w/filter

 

[Super-Cuda]

No 8 3/4 rear differential ??

 

[cudamark]

No 8 3/4 rear differential ??

Not as a factory option that year. Some were dealer installed and/or warranty replacement/upgrades for blown 7 1/4's.

 

[dibbons]

No 8 3/4 rear differential ??

With respect to my Formula S, a previous owner had installed an 8 3/4 differential with the "489" casting number. Obviously that later edition differential it now has was not manufactured yet in 1965.

 

[chewy]

5.2L should be 4.5.
Mileage is low
No Dual point?

 

[dibbons]

OK thanks, I'll update the liters to 4.5L

After "red engine paint" above I did note dual breaker points already. However, not sure if that changes the dwell angle of 28-33. Or for that matter, how would one use a dwell meter on a dual point distributor anyway?

My gas mileage on the 1,000 mile trip from San Diego to La Paz (here) was terrible. However, I found when I arrived the distributor vacuum advance was defective. Then again, on the same trip the factory AFB was feeding a 318 block a previous owner had swapped in but still retaining the top end of the 273.

 

[chewy]

OK thanks, I'll update the liters to 4.5L

After "red engine paint" above I did note dual breaker points already. However, not sure if that changes the dwell angle of 28-33. Or for that matter, how would one use a dwell meter on a dual point distributor anyway?

My gas mileage on the 1,000 mile trip from San Diego to La Paz (here) was terrible. However, I found when I arrived the distributor vacuum advance was defective. Then again, on the same trip the factory AFB was feeding a 318 block a previous owner had swapped in but still retaining the top end of the 273.

Mileage on my 65 dart 4bbl 273 4spd with 293 gears was 23-25 consistently for many, many years before the rebuild (1975-2004). Even after the rebuild with a slightly larger lift /duration cam with 323s in an 8-3/4 it gets 18-20 mpg. Premium 91 octane.

318 would be a bit different from a stock hipo 273,. ..... , higher rotating mass, and more depending on what previous owner meant by retaining the 273 top end. If you have a 318 it is a 5.2 as you said, not a 4.5L. Should change the Cubic itches in your sheet

Dual pont tuning, Set each side separately 27° to 31°. A paper match or small piece of shoe box can be used to block one side off , combined dwell should be 36° to 40°.

 

[dibbons]

Fender Tag Decode

1-1 left manual outside mirror
3-9 variable speed wipers w/washer

AB-31 273 V8 4bbl
C-2 Barracuda Formula S Package
D-5 Automatic Transmission
E-1 Air Conditioning w/Heater
F-1 Power Brakes
Q-1 AM Music Master Radio
T-8 Tachometer
V-3 Back-up Lights
X-8 Retractable Seat Belts Front & Rear
Z-2 Front Bucket Seats & Console

SO NUMBER
121 00054

1 = January; 21 = Day of Month; 00054 is Shipping/Sequence Order No.

BDY
V89
V = Barracuda V8; 8 = Barracuda; 9 = Barracuda

TRM
P4Y
P = Premium Front Bucket Seats; 4 = Vinyl Bucket Seats;
Y = Gold Seats, Headliner, Carpet

PAINT
WW1 A
W = White Roof; W = White Body; 1 = Mono Color;
A = Inside Door Color Gold

Modifications by Previous Owner(s)

The original factory 273 cubic inch block was replaced by a later and larger displacement 318 cubic inch block. The factory original 1965 single plane four barrel intake manifold was replaced by a similar factory 1966 single plane four barrel intake manifold that uses different fasteners (bolts) and a different fastener hole angle.

The factory 273 original oil pan was replaced by a later 318 oil pan that interfered with the steering link (the steering link was beginning to wear a hole in one side of the oil pan).

The swapped in 318 block retained the special 1965 Commando 273 finned valve covers, Carter AFB carburetor, and chrome air cleaner. The exhaust manifolds are the factory stock versions for the small block motor used in a 1965 ABody like all Barracuda and Valiant models used at the time. Heat riser valve has been removed.

The Torqueflite automatic transmission is original to the vehicle and can be verified by the stamped numbers on the case which indicate it applies to a 1965 Commando 273 drivetrain.

Many of the A/C components have been removed and lost (condenser, compressor, brackets, pulleys, fan shroud, and under dash outlet vent assembly. Still intact is the A/C style heater box, receiver dryer, a couple of hoses, and dash switches. Unsure if installed six-blade fan is correct for this A/C equipped vehicle.

Other missing components: battery, correct gas cap, AM radio, windshield washer, dual point distributor (single point installed), “Commando 273” pie tin for air cleaner, spare tire and jack, differential pinion snubber, keys, hood insulation, factory wheels, “Barracuda” logo letters for trunk, factory exhaust manifold gaskets with heat shields (were replaced with non-shielded gaskets).

Factory in dash tachometer not working. Speedometer cable snapped (and speedometer locked up). Front windshield cracked. Trunk hinges broken.

Extra components found in trunk: right and left grilles with turn signals.

Gold interior was replaced by another Barracuda black interior (front bucket seats, rear seat, door panels). Therefore, build sheet found under the rear seat cushion is incorrect for this vehicle. However, the factory correct fender tag had been retained.

Factory wheels and wheel covers replaced by factory 14” x 5.5” Rallye wheels which were available on later models from 1970-1977.

The smaller, weaker, and lighter factory original 7 1/4” ring gear differential was replaced by the larger, stronger, and heavier 8 3/4” ring gear differential with casting number ending in “489”. Although sure-grip was optional on both, the installed differential is an “open” type (without the sure-grip feature). Rear end ratio is apparently 2.93.

New Owner Modifications (me)

The vehicle was purchased in a non-running condition. One piston in the 318 block was found to have a hole burned directly through the center of it. The engine received a stock 318 rebuild at Midway Engine Rebuilders on Market Street in Salinas, California. Block overbore is 0.040” which raised the displacement from 318 to 324 cubic inches. The cylinder block casting date is stamped as 12/4/79 (probably originally used in a 1980 model vehicle). Original motor mount brackets were modified to better match the newer block ears. Crankshaft is now cast (versus 273 stronger forged crankshaft) The cylinder heads are now open chamber (versus 273 closed chamber) with casting number of 2843675. The original Carter AFB carburetor was rebuilt by a local speed shop owner. Camshaft is now stock profile 318 hydraulic lifter version probably with specs .373/.400 240/248.

Block repainted factory red and valve covers repainted factory crinkle finish black. Body stripped and sandblasted and rotisserie restored. Cowl area rust damage restored and sheet metal replaced in front floors, trunk floor, lower quarter panels. rear window edging. Undercoating removed and not replaced. Acrylic enamel one-stage finish in factory original white (outside, inside, underhood, and underside). Factory style gold striping painted over the white acrylic enamel finish.

The gas tank was found to be punctured and was replaced. The factory stock radiator was rebuilt. The differential had a “dent” in the rear center but was not perforated and has not leaked any gear oil. A right rear wheel bearing was dry/grinding and was replaced. The factory style “ball and trunnion” style universal joint on the front of the factory driveshaft was changed over to a conventional u-joint. The transmission crossmember was modified on the passenger side to allow for installation of a complete TTI 2 1/2” dual exhaust system with turn down tail pipes. Cracked windshield was replaced. Distributor is now aftermarket/electronic Pertronix unit. Brakes replaced and power brake booster rebuilt by outside vendor (now after 10 years power brake booster has failed). Correct ’65 Abody oil pan installed. Fan shroud fabricated. Mechanical oil pressure and coolant temperature gauges installed. Dash circuit board replaced and factory mechanical volt limiter replaced with electronic unit. Factory ammeter now bypassed. Tachometer sending unit replaced with electronic version. Dash pad recovered and front bucket seats recovered (both in “camel” color). Headliner replaced. Cardboard factory glove box liner now fabricated from stainless steel. New brake master and wheel cylinders. New parking brake cables. New body gaskets and seals all around.

The transmission (at first) performed satisfactorily but ultimately rebuilt in Mexico (now leaking fluid front and rear seals). When re-installed, an adaptor bushing was purchased and installed to better match a 1968+ crankshaft to a 1960-67 Torqueflite 904 torque convertor.

New shock absorbers installed (rear shocks now have aftermarket extensions due to leaf springs having been modified with an extra leaf on both sides compared to factory springs). New differential pinion snubber fabricated. Front suspension retains stock torsion bars and stabilizer bar. Front brakes have automatic adjusters and rear brakes are manual adjusters.

Mopar Rallye wheels (without trim rings) re-painted “graphite” color and tires installed.
front: P185/75R14 Sears Guardsman Plus 24.9”/7.3” (“new”)
rear: P215/70R14 Hankook Optimo H724 25.9”/8.5” (used)

Since the current engine is a 318 LA block, it no longer uses the 273 Commando camshaft profile, the solid valve lifters, adjustable rocker arms, or the dome pistons (or the dual point distributor as mentioned above). For reference, a Plymouth/Dodge V8-318 2-bbl was factory rated 230 HP @ 4,400 rpm and 340 lb-ft torque @ 2,400 rpm with 9.0:1 compression ratio and bore and stroke of 3.91” x 3.31”.

Current problems: bucket seats still require old foam replacement, speedometer and speedo cable out of service, transmission leaking ATF, power steering leaking fluid, brake booster defective, turn signal not cancelling itself after left turns. Carburetor choke is tied open and accelerator pump weak. Ammeter bypassed to avoid shorts/fire.

Differential Tutorial

1-7/8″ tapered stem pinion… (aka. ‘489’)…
Carrier casting numbers: 2881488, 2881489 (1969-1974). This assembly was introduced in 1969 and was phased-in to relace the 1-3/4″ unit through 1970. Note: the 1-3/4″ pinion also appeared in some ‘489’ carriers during this period. By 1973, the ‘489’ was the only unit available in passenger car applications. This assembly was typically used in high weight/medium horsepower applications through high weight/high horsepower applications. Pinion depth is set with shims, preload is set with a crush sleeve. Differential bearing setting (ie. backlash ) is set with threaded adjusters.

All 8-3/4″ carrier assemblies can be identified externally by the casting numbers. Additionally, the ‘741’ commonly has a large X cast on the left side, the ‘742’ may have a large 2 cast on the left side, and the ‘489’ has a large 9 cast on the left side. Through 1965, the factory ratio was stamped on the identification boss, followed by an ‘S’ if Sure Grip equipped. After 1965, a tag was affixed under one of the carrier mounting nuts to identify the ratio. If Sure Grip equipped, an additional Sure Grip lube tag was sometimes affixed; later years sometimes had the filler plug painted orange.

Gear ratios available on the 8-3/4″ axle through the years include: 2.76, 2.93, 3.23, 3.31, 3.55, 3.73, 3.91, 4.10, 4.56, 4.89, 5.17, 5.57. On OEM gear sets, the ratio is usually stamped on the ring gear edge.

 

[64_Barracuda]

Not super sure what your question is, or if your just letting us know what kind of car you have, which sounds awesome by the way, here are some dealer items that may help.

 

[dibbons]

In the above posted dealer info (very complete, thank you) I don't see at first glance an option for a factory passenger side outside mirror (and my vehicle has none). I thought somewhere in the past I read it was a dealer installed option. Anyone know for sure?

The reason for this thread: Just putting together details about the car to pass it on to family members so they know what I know. Thought I might as well share it with FABO members who might be interested.

 

[cudamark]

Just about anything could have been done on Day 2, official or unofficial. I have an NOS dealer installed RH mirror (to match a remote drivers' side), but, I don't know when it was first available. I haven't seen a factory RH mirror on a build sheet or window sticker for any '65 or '66 A-body. I'd love to see one though!

 

[64_Barracuda]

In the above posted dealer info (very complete, thank you) I don't see at first glance an option for a factory passenger side outside mirror (and my vehicle has none). I thought somewhere in the past I read it was a dealer installed option. Anyone know for sure?

The reason for this thread: Just putting together details about the car to pass it on to family members so they know what I know. Thought I might as well share it with FABO members who might be interested.

RH mirrors were never available for these cars, the same mirror is/was used on other models that had RH mirrors, folks just started putting them on.

 

[cudamark]

RH mirrors were never available for these cars, the same mirror is/was used on other models that had RH mirrors, folks just started putting them on.

That's my understanding too, but, I've had people swear that their car came from the factory with one. I've asked for proof for 40+ years now and still haven't seen a build sheet or window sticker with that option in an early A-body.....even station wagons and convertibles where you would really like to have one.

 

[65 Cuda 340]

Ross Roy book for the 65 Barracuda only list a left side mirror option - standard or remote control. No right side. (Of course, that could have changed later in the year.) For what it's worth, my 65 Barracuda (that I've owned since 68) has an outside mirror only on the left side.

 

[cudamark]

Ross Roy book for the 65 Barracuda only list a left side mirror option - standard or remote control. No right side. (Of course, that could have changed later in the year.) For what it's worth, my 65 Barracuda (that I've owned since 68) has an outside mirror only on the left side.

View attachment 1716182399

It's interesting that they list a console as an option, but, in parentheses it says it's standard with an automatic. I've never seen one for a manual transmission that year. They just came with that chrome plate around the shift boot. They don't consider that a console do they?

 

[65 Cuda 340]

Ha! I wouldn't think so. Maybe the console is optional because you get it only with an optional automatic trans. ??? Good catch, I never noticed that before.

 

[64_Barracuda]

It's interesting that they list a console as an option, but, in parentheses it says it's standard with an automatic. I've never seen one for a manual transmission that year. They just came with that chrome plate around the shift boot. They don't consider that a console do they?

So the automatics had a tiny console if you could call it that. 4spd just had the hump that bumped out and the faceplate. 66 4spd and auto had the same console. Now that I think about it I don't know if a 66 had a 4spd hump or not, I would assume so, which should have made the console wider...

 

[cudamark]

66 A-bodies have the same consoles that the '67-up models use. The 4speed does indeed have the extra hump sidecar.