Need a little guidance from the gurus

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Duece

Duece

Duece
Joined
Sep 12, 2014
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Location
Calgary, AB
Due to life (moved and a new baby), my garage time on my Valiant has been reduced to zero over the last year. This may have been a blessing in disguise, as it has given me a lot of time to read and research as to what I want to do (amazed at the knowledge on this site).

Here is where I am at:

I am working on a relatively tight budget, but am realistic on what I want out of the car; a snappy daily driver.

I have found a couple of motorhomes with 360's and 440's with low miles and low $$$$, so I am thinking of going that route. Been trying to find some info on what type of rear ends they had on those chassis (my guess is several types) but hoping I can find one with a Dana 60 (if they exist) to modify to replace the 7 1/4". If not, either a pick up rear end or a ford 8.8 and modify those. 8 3/4" are just too hard to find and way to expensive.

If I go the 440 route (I reaallly want to), I have a pretty good idea what needs to be done from reading all the threads. Only thing I can't seem to find is info on a 727 column shift with the headers; can this be done?

Any advise or suggestions would be greatly appreciated, looking forward to getting back in the garage here soon :burnout:
 
My advice:

Get a 318 or 360 magnum, install an air gap and a 600-650 cfm carb. Goes right in the car, will make good power, lots of header options, can run a 904, so your shifter will hook right up.

You could use the 360 motorhome engine but the trans may have a companion flange and may be useless to you anyway. You'd still need a kickdown linkage that fits on the car anyway. They are all bound to be pretty low power.

I would guess most motorhomes have Dana 70s or Dana 80's, unless they are really small. You wouldn't want to use those. Probably go with a 94-98 mustang 8.8, A-body 8 1/4, Explorer axle with one side shortened, or a 65-70 B-body 8 3/4 if you can find one and have wheels with a lot of offset.

We are doing a 318 magnum/904 in my friend's 71 Demon. We picked up a rebuilt 318 magnum for $200 on CL, a 904 on CL for $150, and a B-body 8 3/4 with a 3.23 sure grip for $450. With all the incidentals, it's probably another $900 by the time it's all installed. We did spend another $325 for a Lunati hydraulic roller cam for it.
 
good to know about the 360 from motorhomes, and that was kind of my thoughts on the rear end but was worth asking

Its next to impossible to find things that cheap around here and with exchange and shipping its just not worth the gamble getting a rebuild out of the states.

I was really hoping I could get away with a low mileage motorhome 440 that only need a couple of bolt-on parts, all the magnum engines around here have a lot of miles and need a full rebuild which I was trying to avoid
 
The light duty 1 ton "van style" motorhomes, you know with a "van nose" are NOT likely to have the oddball 727. They will most likely have a normal, long shaft, slip yoke 727. I with above, tho, I say stay with small block.

If you get a 360LA youll need a "car" 360 pan (not 318) and pickup, of course engine brackets to match your body, and exhaust manifolds / headers for your body.
 
LGK ? Bought all the junkyards up-buy a warranteed magnum motor running, pm me and I'll give you a 904 or 727 ($$$$$$?????shipping), 8 1/4 is plenty, Chinese air gap, edlbrock carb, get it installed, running, & then consider modifying afterwards
 
Hello to a fellow Northerner
A snappy DD 72Valiant, on a budget, eh? To replace a slanty/904/7.25?
If you just need a DD, I 'spose you won't be running big meats out back. So no meats kinda means;Why even think 440?
For a DD, and a snappy streeter, and 275s or less,a mild 360 is all you need. A 440 would be like hunting squirrels with a cannon.How dead does it need to be to stay dead.Even a hot teener can be snappy.
If you go SBM, you can keep costs down.
If you put a Suregrip in the 7.25, and run smaller tires, it can last a good long while in a DD.
You can run a small-block 904, and keep your driveshaft.
You can leave the suspension and brakes alone for a while.
The current fuel system will be adequate.
So all the money you didn't spend on upgrades, can now go into the engine, which after freshening might/probably will, go ten years. How long will that pickapart engine go.Any warranty you get does not include the labor.How many times do you want to pull it for free?
 
I also have to vote the S B route for all the above mentioned reasons!!!!

i'm like the X, " i'm not always right, but i'm never wrong"! ha
 
Deuce
I'll tell you a little secret; MPFI engines can go 400,000 km and still show very little cylinder wall wear. At 200,000 they can be very nice, needing nothing but a chain.And it's a roller cam.
So, with a good eye and a bit of luck, you could be looking at nothing but a freshening up.You will need a tranny tho, as the sixer will not fit.If you buy them together, or you buy a complete donor vehicle, you will be set. Stay away from the auto-overdrives unless you have some metalworking skills,cuz they don't fit without surgery.
 
Like others have said the class A style motorhomes tend to have special tail shafts on the transmission. Its actually a brake but either way they are not what you're looking for. Now for as to which way to go (SB vs BB) I'm partial to a BB. But in general you can do a SB for less and if you are DDing it the gas mileage should be better all things being equal. As far as rear ends go what are you calling expensive? I picked up a complete A-body rear for $500. I mean you might be able to do a Dana 60 from a modern Ford pick up and mod it to fit cheaper but I'm not sure how much you would save...especially if time is a concern which it sounds like it is.
 
What year is your car?

I have found a Magnum engine to be a very good performer. There already a 9.0-1 engine that just needs to breath and given a cam, if actually needed, to fit the operating RPM desired.

I equipped mine with a RPM, 650 AVS, vacuum advance distributor & headers into 2-1/2 exhaust from Summit racing. An excellent inexpensive kit fit very well with minor trimming at the tail pipes. I will cam it later wit a little help from Hughesengines.com, who have trick retainers for stock Magnum heads allowing more lift than what the stock set up allows.

Just be aware that a stock Magnum has a short cam snout that doesn't have provisions for a fuel pump eccentric. Hughes engines also has a trick part for that. You can swap on LA front engine parts for a full conversion. An expense that I would guess you want to avoid. It is a relatively cheap conversion, but then again, it is money out of your pocket.

On what trams to use, stay with a 904. There engine specific if you did not know. Grab a B&M flex plate to use with the Magnum external balance to a neutral balance converter. Which is cheaper and easier to get than a external balanced converter. Install a shift kit and call it a day.
IMO, an inexpensive B&M floor shifter is an easy way out instead of messing around with the column shift mechanics.

On the rear end, a 8-1/4 is plenty strong, inexpensive to upgrade to a sure grip and readily available for much much less than a 8-3/4. The 8-1/4 is highly underrated. They will handle 400hp & 400lbs. Of torque.

Minus the rear end and engine purchase, the total cost is very reasonable. The results are very good. The only other expensive thing you may like/desire later is an O.D. Trans. &/or Edelbrock Magnum heads.
 
rumblefish360 said:
What year is your car?

I have found a Magnum engine to be a very good performer. There already a 9.0-1 engine that just needs to breath and given a cam, if actually needed, to fit the operating RPM desired.

I equipped mine with a RPM, 650 AVS, vacuum advance distributor & headers into 2-1/2 exhaust from Summit racing. An excellent inexpensive kit fit very well with minor trimming at the tail pipes. I will cam it later wit a little help from Hughesengines.com, who have trick retainers for stock Magnum heads allowing more lift than what the stock set up allows.

Just be aware that a stock Magnum has a short cam snout that doesn't have provisions for a fuel pump eccentric. Hughes engines also has a trick part for that. You can swap on LA front engine parts for a full conversion. An expense that I would guess you want to avoid. It is a relatively cheap conversion, but then again, it is money out of your pocket.

On what trams to use, stay with a 904. There engine specific if you did not know. Grab a B&M flex plate to use with the Magnum external balance to a neutral balance converter. Which is cheaper and easier to get than a external balanced converter. Install a shift kit and call it a day.
IMO, an inexpensive B&M floor shifter is an easy way out instead of messing around with the column shift mechanics.

On the rear end, a 8-1/4 is plenty strong, inexpensive to upgrade to a sure grip and readily available for much much less than a 8-3/4. The 8-1/4 is highly underrated. They will handle 400hp & 400lbs. Of torque.

Minus the rear end and engine purchase, the total cost is very reasonable. The results are very good. The only other expensive thing you may like/desire later is an O.D. Trans. &/or Edelbrock Magnum heads.
Click to expand...

its a 1972. I also have a donor car (1972 Valiant; my highschool car that I put a 318/904 into).

My original plan was to rebuild the tween and the 904 (they have been sitting for 20yrs), and I already have the driveshaft/linkage for this.

Both 7 1/4" rear ends that I have need overhaul, so my thought was if I am going to spend the money I would rather do so on a differential that can handle higher HP because somewhere down the road I will want to go with more be it SB/BB

I like the idea of the 360mag, and as AJ said if I can find one that is still strong I agree it probably is my best option as it will work with a lot of the parts that I already have.

Really appreciate the input and advice, keep it coming :happy3:
 
Quote " I am working on a relatively tight budget " why are you even considering a big block go small block whatever needed to get it going on the cheap you can upgrade to a magnum later with little expense
 
Going with a BB there will be so many issues to address. Frame needs to be beefed up with frame connectors, heavier torsion bars, etc. My .02 is go with a small block. Makes life a lot easier, and cheaper. You are on a budget.
 
A '72? Good. Trans Dapt makes a inexpensive swap kit so someone research.
I like the engine torque strap from these guys in addition. http://www.engine-swaps.com
Search the junk yards and classifieds for a truck or van for a Magnum. With the Lowest of mileage of course. My particular engine I used was out of my daughters wrecked Durango with 80K. It still had the cross hatch hairs from the day it was made. So don't be so afraid, just bring a wrench and check.
 
I did a 440 in a 74 Colum shift. I went the Schumacher rout and the shift linkage can be modified to work. I had to cut the end of the z bar down a bit but it works. I used a kick down cable and it shifts fine. There is a lot of work to be done bat I run a 8 1/4 rear and they hold up great till around 500hp on the street with a suregrip. I have somewhat of a build thread if you do a 440 search with my username. Hope it helps.
 
rumblefish360 said:
A '72? Good. Trans Dapt makes a inexpensive swap kit so someone research.
I like the engine torque strap from these guys in addition. http://www.engine-swaps.com
Search the junk yards and classifieds for a truck or van for a Magnum. With the Lowest of mileage of course. My particular engine I used was out of my daughters wrecked Durango with 80K. It still had the cross hatch hairs from the day it was made. So don't be so afraid, just bring a wrench and check.
Click to expand...

Alright, I think you all have me convinced to stay away from the BB....for now anyway hahaha.

If I did manage to find a wreck with a magnum, is there a certain vehicle I should be on the lookout for so that I can get a rear end with less mods required or will they all require the same (cutting the tubes and moving the perches)?
 
340fourspeedDuster said:
Going with a BB there will be so many issues to address. Frame needs to be beefed up with frame connectors, heavier torsion bars, etc. My .02 is go with a small block. Makes life a lot easier, and cheaper. You are on a budget.
Click to expand...

I don't exactly agree with this but it is certainly true once you start putting the beef into the big block. The first and most important thing to do in a engine swap and a bit more so with a big block swap is to upgrade the brakes to a min. Of the factory big discs and drums. I figure since your upgrading, you might as well go big like you did with the engine. Be it big or small block.

You can live with the /6 T bars. Though bigger ones will help with a more street comfortable ride with less bounce. The frame connector issue is a good all around thing that anyone that has done it basically raves about it. Is it needed ASAP? No. But when you get there, you'll be glad it was done.

The one thing I suggest with any V8 swap is the upgrading of the rear end from the 7-1/4 to at the very least the 8-1/4, MoPars most underrated rear. It will suite well for street duty, no problem.
 
It is easiest to find a 8-1/4 or 8-3/4 for an A body rather than a rear needing a cutting and fitting and/or welding. If your talented enough to measure and weld, go for it. There is a 8.8 Ford rear swap thread here that is a very very good thread to read. The Ford rear is strong and readily available.

But to keep it cheap, I think a 8-1/4 A body rear is it.

Dodge trucks and vans often have a Magnum engine. Mostly the 5.2 AKA 318. Just keep the eyes out for the 5.9 I.D. On the engine I.D. Sticker and then double check the drivers side of the block for the 360 cast into the block.
 
kijiji alberta has an 8 3/4 from 72 duster for sale, look under mopar parts, not sure on price?
 
I feel I need to clarify a little:

I was hoping to get a reliable and fun summer driver for relatively cheap (was hoping to stay below $5kCAN which is like $500US right now).

I am not afraid of work/modifications although I am fairly green when it comes to automotive mods but you don't learn until you try. Trying to find a way to get everything I need/want and not have to re-do too much later.

Regardless of the route I go, this is where I am at:

-I need a tranny built 904/BB727 (thinking probably $1k)
-Want/need headers ($500)
-Engine upgrades (carb/intake/cam) ($1500)*can hold off on this until later
-Misc (motor mounts/flexplate/other)($1000)
-Rear end ($1500)(seems to be the cost whether I find the right housing and rebuild or find one that doesn't need to be rebuilt but modified ie ford 8.8 or a dana 60)

My thought process here (usually out to lunch) is that if I go the motorhome route (plenty of them for sale around $1000 with less than 40,000kms), I get more HP out of a stock motor (can use the engine upgrade money towards other things like brakes which is probably a good idea regardless of SB/BB). I can do the top end stuff to the engine down the road

Obviously this doesnt factor any of my time/labour and pulling motors from motorhomes can be a pain from what I hear, but like I said I am not afraid of the labour. I like the idea of the 360mag, which I think will be relatively the same cost for everything behind it until I start to warm up the 440 being that I will have already taken care of the tranny/rear end.

My apologies for this thread being all over the place, but am I way out in left field here?
 
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