Need advice on best Balancer

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fastnos said:
I've used 1 fluid dampener before, and the rest were factory. Just didn't want to end up with 1 kind known for problems. ( kinda like certain aftermarket cranks that break after the #2 throw..)
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Do you know what the “problems” were, because they still happen today.

You absolutely can NOT install a performance damper of any kind without measuring the crank snout and the damper bore and getting the correct press fit.

That is IIRC .0005-.0010 and that’s it. I know that even today most guys just slam the damper on and go.

If the damper is loose it can’t control the harmonics and BOOM the crank ***** the bed. And the damper gets blamed.

If the damper is too tight it start to spread the key way and once that happens the torsional vibrations keep working on the key way until it splits and then it ***** the bed. And the damper gets blamed.

All this information is out there. But once a product gets tagged with “issues” it doesn’t matter. The lie just keeps going and going.

I cut a wide path for engine builder on the web. It’s a ***** making a living with a fickle bunch of hobbyists whose loyalty stops at the office door. I thought the WWW would help correct this but I was WRONG. DEAD WRONG. It’s made it worse because crap like this grows more legs.

But, I’m appalled by the number of machinists and engine builders who can’t read simple directions about damper fit, or worse yet they don’t give a ****.

The only American V8 that I know of that has a slip fit damper is Pontiac (one reason of many to not build **** like that) and I think that is only for OE dampers. IIRC aftermarket dampers call for press fit but I wouldn’t stake my life on that today because it’s been awhile since I built one and hopefully and never do another one.

The upshot is lazy machinists who don’t check damper fit are why these dampers fail. Either the won’t do the work or they can’t do it because they don’t have the tooling to do it or they have no clue how to do it.

Shame on them for not doing thing correctly and shame on them for not educating their customers.

It’s far easier to blame the part for shitty or incompetent (or both) work than it is to do it correctly.

Edit: I forgot to mention that not only are guys not checking damper fit, when this all started chicom cranks were just hitting the market and quality control was nonexistent.

You had cranks so small an OE damper would slide on like socks on a rooster and some would be so big guys were heating the damper up to get it on because an installation tool would either not get do the job or fail trying.

But the damper gets blamed for horrible engine building practices.

And I know for a FACT it still happens today.
 
mopowers said:
The offshore brands I've bought needed quite a bit of honing. Better than being to loose I guess, but just an fyi. I've been really happy with Dayco/Powerbond balancers. Pretty high quality units recommended by a couple machinists I know. They're lighter than a lot of others too.
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Exactly. They need to be fitted to each crank.
 
Guys, this is getting a bit too far away from what I asked. I told you the application and intended use, asked what people had problems with/stay away from, and what a common type was used without manufacturing problems, that I should stay away from.

I've decided what one I'm ordering. Had a few private messages that are to the precise and too the point.

No more comments are needed/wanted. Thanks for everyone's input.
 
fastnos said:
Guys, this is getting a bit too far away from what I asked. I told you the application and intended use, asked what people had problems with/stay away from, and what a common type was used without manufacturing problems, that I should stay away from.

I've decided what one I'm ordering. Had a few private messages that are to the precise and too the point.

No more comments are needed/wanted. Thanks for everyone's input.
Click to expand...

LOL.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
Do you know what the “problems” were, because they still happen today.

You absolutely can NOT install a performance damper of any kind without measuring the crank snout and the damper bore and getting the correct press fit.

That is IIRC .0005-.0010 and that’s it. I know that even today most guys just slam the damper on and go.

If the damper is loose it can’t control the harmonics and BOOM the crank ***** the bed. And the damper gets blamed.

If the damper is too tight it start to spread the key way and once that happens the torsional vibrations keep working on the key way until it splits and then it ***** the bed. And the damper gets blamed.

All this information is out there. But once a product gets tagged with “issues” it doesn’t matter. The lie just keeps going and going.

I cut a wide path for engine builder on the web. It’s a ***** making a living with a fickle bunch of hobbyists whose loyalty stops at the office door. I thought the WWW would help correct this but I was WRONG. DEAD WRONG. It’s made it worse because crap like this grows more legs.

But, I’m appalled by the number of machinists and engine builders who can’t read simple directions about damper fit, or worse yet they don’t give a ****.

The only American V8 that I know of that has a slip fit damper is Pontiac (one reason of many to not build **** like that) and I think that is only for OE dampers. IIRC aftermarket dampers call for press fit but I wouldn’t stake my life on that today because it’s been awhile since I built one and hopefully and never do another one.

The upshot is lazy machinists who don’t check damper fit are why these dampers fail. Either the won’t do the work or they can’t do it because they don’t have the tooling to do it or they have no clue how to do it.

Shame on them for not doing thing correctly and shame on them for not educating their customers.

It’s far easier to blame the part for shitty or incompetent (or both) work than it is to do it correctly.

Edit: I forgot to mention that not only are guys not checking damper fit, when this all started chicom cranks were just hitting the market and quality control was nonexistent.

You had cranks so small an OE damper would slide on like socks on a rooster and some would be so big guys were heating the damper up to get it on because an installation tool would either not get do the job or fail trying.

But the damper gets blamed for horrible engine building practices.

And I know for a FACT it still happens today.
Click to expand...
And this is the reason my brother refuses to build street car motors. The amount of attention to detail that it really takes to build a motor is outside the budget scope for most people. And since people are taking shortcuts and not paying attention to the small details, like honing the balancer, you get problems that are blamed on the parts, but in reality the failure is from the guy trying to get it done in a budget timeframe so stuff is skipped over. That’s the difference between 100+ hour motor build and your normal street car 20 hour build. You get what you pay for….
 
Scody21 said:
And this is the reason my brother refuses to build street car motors. The amount of attention to detail that it really takes to build a motor is outside the budget scope for most people. And since people are taking shortcuts and not paying attention to the small details, like honing the balancer, you get problems that are blamed on the parts, but in reality the failure is from the guy trying to get it done in a budget timeframe so stuff is skipped over. That’s the difference between 100+ hour motor build and your normal street car 20 hour build. You get what you pay for….
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Yup. It’s always good enough until it isn’t. And the parts get blamed.
 
For reference, I had to hone ATI, Innovators West, PowerBond and Prof Products balancers. The emgines with aftermarket crankshafts needed more honing than the stock cranks.
 
Jeremiah (jd) said:
For reference, I had to hone ATI, Innovators West, PowerBond and Prof Products balancers. The emgines with aftermarket crankshafts needed more honing than the stock cranks.
Click to expand...
I’d say that’s a good thing. You don’t want that thing loose. On my recent build the import Fluiddamper style balancer that I provided was really tight and needed a lot of honing. He decided for my build at that power level that a standard good quality rubber band damper will work fine at 450-ish hp. Made the pulley lineup better too.
 
gzig5 said:
I’d say that’s a good thing. You don’t want that thing loose. On my recent build the import Fluiddamper style balancer that I provided was really tight and needed a lot of honing. He decided for my build at that power level that a standard good quality rubber band damper will work fine at 450-ish hp. Made the pulley lineup better too.
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You can buy a FD with a recessed face to correct pulley alignment.

Your engine builder should read the Chrysler engine book on dampers.

You do not choose a damper based on horsepower.
 
Newbomb Turk said:
The only American V8 that I know of that has a slip fit damper is Pontiac (one reason of many to not build **** like that)
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Oh no, Bewy will be along shortly to tell you how those are the best things ever and quote some article about it. Then tell you to run it on MVA.
 
Maybe...Pioneer? Anyhow that's what I've been running. Needed some honing. If I remember, reasonably priced. Not cheap, not expensive. Yeah, no rubber band.
 
Romac is another Aussie one, more high end than Powerbond, but both are good as far as elastomer dampners go.
Romac offer more materials & weights in the same line to so you can get something better tuned to the rpm range your going to run in
 
Ted265 said:
Romac is another Aussie one, more high end than Powerbond, but both are good as far as elastomer dampners go.
Romac offer more materials & weights in the same line to so you can get something better tuned to the rpm range your going to run in
Click to expand...


That’s the one I was thinking about.
 
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