Need Help and thoughts on my 390 stroker

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NorthernSwede

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Hi!

I have been in the process of building a 318 stroker engine for my Dart and first of all I'd like some thoughts on how you think it will perform as of now (I have just begun putting things thogether from the workshop)

Current Setup

Crankshaft : Mopar Perf. Cast 4" Crank

Camshaft : Comp Cams 20-223-3

Pistons : Ketih Black ICON 3.940"

Connecting Rods : Polished and Shotpeened stock rods

Carburetor : Holley 650 Vac-Sec

Exhaust : Headman tight tubes for -71 Dart

Heads : 360 heads 2.02 intake 1.60 exhaust portmatched to Intake

Intake : Edelbrock Perf. RPM




So first question is, how do you guys think this will perform?

Second question is, how much gain do you think there is in aftermarket heads? Which ones to choose? Money/Performance? Bare or Assembled?
Have to fit with intake, headers and other stock equipment.
 
aftermarket heads? you are looking for performance gain from the stock to aftermarket heads...

depends on what has been done to your current heads vs which aftermarket head you choose....

i would say for the money the RHS/Indy will give you the biggest bang for the buck...
eddy heads offer lighter weight and a performance gain over stock heads...

you do not list your goals as to street only...street/strip or ?
 
that cam is small, at the least comp 224hyd

I would 'if limited in the convertor gear depot' use cam that has about 238*-240*@.050 duration
remember, it is a stroker and it will have a lot more bottom end, so you can go bigger without much 'if any' sacrifice.

might even help with hooking up, cause you would be burning tires off and all done in the rpms before you knew it with the 268* cam

those heads on that cid would work fine, the added port volume which would normally slow things down w/318 will work good and let the cam work it's range than if using 318 heads.u could port them some if you wanted.
 
I think if it was me I'd change a few things:
I'd run Diamond pistons. They are a lot more moeny, but they have a 16.5cc dish instead of that overly large 23cc the Icons have. This allows you to run a tight quench (030 of so) and a static compression around 10.5:1.
I'd use a closed chamber head with intake valves no larger than 1.92". You can get the RHS heads or for 1/2 the cash of the RHS you can have the Engine Quest Magnums. The better head for what you're doing is the RHS IMO and 2.02 valves will suffer a little from shrouding.
I'd run a larger cam. Something closer to the "bigger" end of what 1Wild said.. Something like the Comp Magnum 305H (first choice) or the XE275HL. You will want to run a cam large enough to bleed off some cylinder pressure.
I'd recommend upping the carb by a lot. The Street Avenger 770 with the EQ heads, and 870 with the RHS heads (both vacuum secondary) would be what I'd recommend. Compared apples to apples to the 650 you list, these carbs would be around 850(for the 770) and 940(for the 870). You need a larger carb.
 
Head change is for performance gain and nothing else since the heads I already have work fine, they are as stated portmatched and I have just evened out the rough parts in the ports. I don't want much higher compression than 9.5 since I will be running it on stock pump-gas. It will of course see some action in the streets and maybe a couple of strip-runs a year but first of all I just want a fast daily driver. Well I don't think I'm going to swap pistons, these ICONS seem just fine and it would be 550USD into the trash anyway.

How's the quality on the RHS heads?

How do they perform compared to say the Performer RPM?
 
No, head/piston change if for the sake of pump gas, economy, and power. Your pump fuel can't be any worse than mine. They rate them differently but they are the same basic stuff. I think your super (95?) is equal to my 89/91 with 10% ethanol. A modern small chamber/dished piston will run MUCH better than a dished piston with the overly-large 360/340 open chamber and lower static ratio to stop it from detonating. You can get modern for a little more money, or not worry about it and do what you feel like. If it was me, I'd find a local guy to sell your parts to and get your build into the 21st century. Just my opinion of course.
In terms of heads, I would take the RPMs every time over the RHS, but not because the RHS is a bad head. Simply beccause i think in the overall picture, having an aluminum head with more potential is best. This will of course set up the ususal cost arguments but again, that's my opinion. I think if anyone takes the time to calculate the dollars to get a set of RHS heads running on an engine vs a set of RPMs running on an engine you will be within about 28% (for me that's about $600) of each other, and the RPMs are lighter, prettier (if that matters), and have more potential with porting. When the engine budget is $6-7K $600 is not a deal killing figure.
 
Sorry but I don't quite follow you argument (English is not my native language). I agree that the pump gas mot surely is the same. But do I understand you right when you say that with the diamonds I could run 10.5 but the ICONS limit me to 9.5?

Just wondering, please explain how I could run 10.5 without blowing things up. My previous enine builds lie in turbocharged volvo b20 and b230 volvo engines. And it's quite diffrent from a self-breathing v8.
 
he's speaking of quench [closed chamber head or quench dome pistons]

I wouldn't bother buying heads and change pistons at this point.jmo

fwiw I run 10.1 with open chamber heads w/64* o lap and a quench dome, but the quench distance is only .039 not the best..but it'll still run 89 octane....
You can run 87 octane with 9.5 and a lil cam, no problem
I'm gonna look more at what we can do with what you have, I'll get back to you in a few hrs, gotta work now.
 
I'll see if I can make where I'm coming from make sense in simple english... My girlfriend is 1/3 Swedish but neither of us can speak it...lol.
It's really NO different from the B230 turbos when it comes to the detonation resistance. They run an aluminum closed chamber head with a smaller high swirl, fast burn chamber. (I researched them quickly...lol) What do the B230 pistons look like? Slight dish, or flat top? What compression do you run them at?

The cylinder heads you have were designed when the best thing for pump gas was a low static compression ratio. However, this design and the lower ratio negatively affected the power output and efficiency. At the time, this was all they knew. That was back in the late 50s and early 60s. The heads remained basically unchanged until the mid to late 80s, when they started applying more developments in cylinder head flow and chamber design. That was still 30 years ago. Can they be made to work well and make power? Most certainly. Are they "the best" idea when you are starting from a clean sheet of paper? Hell no.

The problem is you have a 4" stroke which by its very nature imparts a lot of ability to create compression, and you have a large open chamber which by it's nature is prone to detonation and ping. The way to minimize that trend with the parts you have is to lower the static compression ratio even more. That in turn lowers the overall output, response, and efficiency of the engine package. So to me, if you are already thinking of building basically from scratch, it makes sense to use technology that is readilly available, doesn't cost much more, and get the best overall result.

In terms of part details...
-The smaller you can make the combustion chamber, the better it will run on pump gas. You are looking at pistons with a 23cc dish, and a chamber volume of arouns 72ccs at the smallest. The combustion chamber volume, the space the air anf fuel mix and burn, is 95ccs and at no time are the piston and head close enough to help the mixture stay mixed. This means there is a greater chance of areas of poorly mixed air/fuel, and areas that simply will not burn, thus losing power and efficiency and making it easy for ping or detonation.
-With the RHS heads at 63cc, and the piston dish at 16.5, the overall chamber size is reduced by almost 20%. And you also have the piston and head coming close together which really reduces the poorly mixed areas. That means you don't have the ping or detonation even tho you have a higher static (and higher dynamic) compression ratio.

I think the overall benefits are worth the initial investment if you are at the point of building a non factory engine size. Hope that makes some sense.
 
The b230 pistons are flattops and I run them at around 7.2-7.5:1 static.

How high static compression could you run given I'd use the diamonds and the RPM heads, just thinking?
 
The cylinder heads you have were designed when the best thing for pump gas was a low static compression ratio. However, this design and the lower ratio negatively affected the power output and efficiency. At the time, this was all they knew. That was back in the late 50s and early 60s. The heads remained basically unchanged until the mid to late 80s, when they started applying more developments in cylinder head flow and chamber design. That was still 30 years ago. Can they be made to work well and make power? Most certainly. Are they "the best" idea when you are starting from a clean sheet of paper? Hell no.


No, We had higher octane/leaded gas back then.
In no way were the old heads designed around low comp/octane, if they were...they'd be closed chamber already.. they were actually designed around better gas then we have today. See 10.1-10.5 was not really that high back then, 11.5 + max wedges and hemi's were considered high compression , like how we have closed chambered max wedge heads, now that adds up.
I don't know about you...but when a compression raise in needed, we change pistons...just like chrysler did with the 340, 440,383,426 hemi,max wedge etc....
while the squish is more efficient=cleaner faster burn=hp
you also get some worser valve shrouding, slight flow loss, nothing major.

If the OP has $1300 more to put into this build, go for it.
If it was me, I wouldn't worry about it and I'd mill them heads to get 10.2 with those pistons, then select my cam and not have any problems with detonation.

The problem is you have a 4" stroke which by its very nature imparts a lot of ability to create compression, and you have a large open chamber which by it's nature is prone to detonation and ping. The way to minimize that trend with the parts you have is to lower the static compression ratio even more. That in turn lowers the overall output, response, and efficiency of the engine package. So to me, if you are already thinking of building basically from scratch, it makes sense to use technology that is readilly available, doesn't cost much more, and get the best overall result.
Polish the chambers, open them to bore size and mill to desired cc.
most people never consider that since the SHARP chamber edge hangs into bore on an LA open chambered head, that is where the detonation usually comes from-glowing hot sharp edges.
I only know 2 people that open the chamber up to the bore, and I'm one.

to the op, compression is an air/fuel mixer in itself, let alone if the carburetor and port volume=velocity is keeping or trying to keep it all suspended/mixed , oddly enough the thing thats involved in detonation is also trying to help by atomizing it all.

In terms of part details...
-The smaller you can make the combustion chamber, the better it will run on pump gas. You are looking at pistons with a 23cc dish, and a chamber volume of arouns 72ccs at the smallest. The combustion chamber volume, the space the air anf fuel mix and burn, is 95ccs and at no time are the piston and head close enough to help the mixture stay mixed. This means there is a greater chance of areas of poorly mixed air/fuel, and areas that simply will not burn, thus losing power and efficiency and making it easy for ping or detonation.
-With the RHS heads at 63cc, and the piston dish at 16.5, the overall chamber size is reduced by almost 20%. And you also have the piston and head coming close together which really reduces the poorly mixed areas. That means you don't have the ping or detonation even tho you have a higher static (and higher dynamic) compression ratio.

I think the overall benefits are worth the initial investment if you are at the point of building a non factory engine size. Hope that makes some sense.
[/QUOTE]


I have milled la heads down to 59cc no problem, it took about .050 to get there, currently mine are at 60cc with the kb356 giving me 10.1 comp-175 dynamic and runs 89 octane.
What I'm seeing in the pics of those icon 847 is a step head, is it possible to get that up out of the hole to zero deck the dish ledge?
What Im saying is... maybe you can mill the block some [way cheaper than heads] and get that step close to the chamber for sum real quench
hell if you could get it .020 out of the hole, use a thin .019 steel head gasket and mill the heads down to 60, you'd be stylin.

those icon pistons 847-846 make it so you either have to run race gas, buy closed chambered heads, or have to mill a lot off the heads.
 
The b230 pistons are flattops and I run them at around 7.2-7.5:1 static.

How high static compression could you run given I'd use the diamonds and the RPM heads, just thinking?

brand doesn't mean squat, piston head shape does

This is based on pump gas and a flat top piston
with aluminum eddys and closed chambers you could run into the mid 11's compression wise.

with an iron head, closed chamber, you could run low 11's compression, but thats about it.
thing is you can detune just a hair and get away on 87 octane like a guy I know does.

it would only be a small amount more, maybe, with a dish piston.
 
this can be like buying a tv or lawnmower...

if yer one of those types, then you just have to have to have the best latest and greatest with room for improvement....wether you ever utilize it in the future? you'll find out.

I'd really love to see the power diff between a dish piston/closed chamber over a dished piston open chamber BOTH with the same high compression...
 
No, We had higher octane/leaded gas back then.
In no way were the old heads designed around low comp/octane, if they were...they'd be closed chamber already.. they were actually designed around better gas then we have today. See 10.1-10.5 was not really that high back then, 11.5 + max wedges and hemi's were considered high compression , like how we have closed chambered max wedge heads, now that adds up.
I should have said it better. You're thinking the 60s. I'm talking about the 70s and after, when all compression ratios were dropped as a result of poorer fuel. Open chamber heads for gasoline engines are not used by any manufacturer I am aware of. Wonder why?

I don't know about you...but when a compression raise in needed, we change pistons...just like chrysler did with the 340, 440,383,426 hemi,max wedge etc....
while the squish is more efficient=cleaner faster burn=hp
you also get some worser valve shrouding, slight flow loss, nothing major.
It depends on the situation, but if I'll replace pistons too. But I would not use a domed TRW piston to raise compression. I'd look at the engine as a package and build to make it all work. Valve shrouding is no worse with a modern closed chamber. Edelbrocks are not the best chamber shape but the RHS chambers are good.

If the OP has $1300 more to put into this build, go for it.
If it was me, I wouldn't worry about it and I'd mill them heads to get 10.2 with those pistons, then select my cam and not have any problems with detonation.
Fair enough. I'd counsel him on what I consider the best reward vs cost and let him make up his mind.

Polish the chambers, open them to bore size and mill to desired cc.
most people never consider that since the SHARP chamber edge hangs into bore on an LA open chambered head, that is where the detonation usually comes from-glowing hot sharp edges.
I only know 2 people that open the chamber up to the bore, and I'm one.
Again i think you've got partial information... Ping may come from hot corners but if you've got glowing red anywhere in there you've got more issues than a sharp corner... Detonation comes from poorly mixed intake charge and it can happen at any rpm or throttle, without you hearing it. Stock 70s low compression mopars are famous for it. In fact, take apart an 80s police interceptor 318 that came factory with the larger chamber head and you'll find carbon and oil residue around the edges of the open chambers. Because the heat never reaches the edges of the chambers. Excessive chamber volume leads to burn problems. That's why no factory uses them any more. The whole process of opening up a closed chamber to bore size is a waste IMO. I do use and unshrouding cut on the valve job but in the OP's case the gaskets are much bigger bore that even the 340 chamber, which is already way bigger than the 318 bore. All kinds of dead space.. not good IMO.

to the op, compression is an air/fuel mixer in itself, let alone if the carburetor and port volume=velocity is keeping or trying to keep it all suspended/mixed , oddly enough the thing thats involved in detonation is also trying to help by atomizing it all.
Again... I think this is misleading because of partial information. Compression ratios (dynamic and static) are fixed. They never change. But, the amount of mixture in the cylinder does change with throttle opening and rpm so cylinder pressure (the result of that compression ratio and the amount of compressible mixture) will definately rise with rpm. that being said, it's not the compression ratio, its the process of compressing that does the work. And closed chambers with dished pistons with a small quench distance help dramatically in a bunch of ways regardless of ports, carb, valve, or valve job.


I have milled la heads down to 59cc no problem, it took about .050 to get there, currently mine are at 60cc with the kb356 giving me 10.1 comp-175 dynamic and runs 89 octane.
175 psi should not be a problem with any head. Dynamic is based on the camshaft but I'd bet you have a dynamic around 8:1 which way safe regardless of piston design. I pay too much for accurate milling to be cutting that far...lol.
What I'm seeing in the pics of those icon 847 is a step head, is it possible to get that up out of the hole to zero deck the dish ledge?
The 847 is a quench dish. Meaning the dish is not centered but is offset to allow for a flat quench pad to create squish as the piston comes up near the flat of a closed chamber.

What Im saying is... maybe you can mill the block some [way cheaper than heads] and get that step close to the chamber for sum real quench
hell if you could get it .020 out of the hole, use a thin .019 steel head gasket and mill the heads down to 60, you'd be stylin.
this debate is not for this thread, but you cannot get a good working quench distance on a factory cast open chamber head. Unless you either got incredibly lucky, or don't know that they aren't doing a lot.

those icon pistons 847-846 make it so you either have to run race gas, buy closed chambered heads, or have to mill a lot off the heads.[/QUOTE]
Pistons don't do anything by themselves. It's all a package. the dished Icons are perfect for many street builds with modern heads. The flat tops will work for a street engine with an open chamber head but you need to be careful with cam choice and ignition curve.

Northern - It all depends on the cam and gasket choices. I normally run a tight quench and they come out around 10.6-10.8:1, with dynamic numbers around 8.6-8.7:1. They run well on pump 87. However, I set the heads up for a 60cc chamber and square deck the block so the piston is .005" above the deck. With RPMs you need to run the Felpro Performance gaskets (or MLS types made for them) to avoid brinneling the heads over time so that machining ends up with a quench distance of .031-.034 or so. The cams are usually in the 245-250° @ .050. The cam is really the key. IMO, the higher the rpm range expected the lower the dynamic should be because of that increasing pressure deal Imentioned to 1Wild.
 
175 psi should not be a problem with any head. Dynamic is based on the camshaft but I'd bet you have a dynamic around 8:1 which way safe regardless of piston design. I pay too much for accurate milling to be cutting that far...lol.

Actually you can have detonation w/91 at this dynamic, this is the beginning.
Someone we all know on this board has a lil of that with 185 dynamic and x heads, for an example. Assuming most aren't 'tuners', most agree on 8.2-8.6 dynamic w/crummy pump swill being pretty much the safe zone, of corse that changes with better closed chambers and matched pistons, note I never disagreed with that.

accurate???
I can only assume your bashing the quality of work now, so all I can say is you cut .0048 for every cc removed on a LA 360 head, they cc'd out correct, it all adds up..so :stop: right there before you start in with the east coast west coast nonsense again.

The 847 is a quench dish. Meaning the dish is not centered but is offset to allow for a flat quench pad to create squish as the piston comes up near the flat of a closed chamber.

I got all that.

this debate is not for this thread, but you cannot get a good working quench distance on a factory cast open chamber head. Unless you either got incredibly lucky, or don't know that they aren't doing a lot.

It''s called a quench dome piston and i think it does pertain to this guys thread just as much as you telling him to spend another $1300 for better quench.
You can use a depth finder.
find tdc, measure @ tdc on all cylinders [mark pistons to cylinders], mill heads to obtain the proper desired advertised ratio [in the process you'd be bore matching the chambers], measure the chamber depth on each chamber [mark heads per bank/] and then do the math, and finally mill the pistons.
again, not rocket science and yes there is effective quench.

Pistons don't do anything by themselves. It's all a package. the dished Icons are perfect for many street builds with modern heads. The flat tops will work for a street engine with an open chamber head but you need to be careful with cam choice and ignition curve.

Your preaching to the choir.
flat tops will 'work' with a lot of things..including a closed chamber too.lol

Northern - It all depends on the cam and gasket choices. I normally run a tight quench and they come out around 10.6-10.8:1, with dynamic numbers around 8.6-8.7:1. They run well on pump 87. However, I set the heads up for a 60cc chamber and square deck the block so the piston is .005" above the deck. With RPMs you need to run the Felpro Performance gaskets (or MLS types made for them) to avoid brinneling the heads over time so that machining ends up with a quench distance of .031-.034 or so. The cams are usually in the 245-250° @ .050. The cam is really the key. IMO, the higher the rpm range expected the lower the dynamic should be because of that increasing pressure deal Imentioned to 1Wild.[/QUOTE]

Once u get in the quench zone .003-.005 doesn't show sht for power.

OP if you can afford new heads for [all else the same] a possible 20 hp increase, go for it.
 
The thing is that I really dont want to rev it more than 6.000 or maybe 6.500Rpm. Is that a crazy thought? And I did figure quite a lot on cam choice and my thought was to have it all done at about 6.700Rpm and peak power between 4.500 and 5.500. That was why I choose this cam in the dirst place. How high static do you recon I could go with a cam this mild?
 
Trying to stay on topic here...
Typically these strokers make max power below 6K. We're talking street engines not race engines in street cars. Peak torque is usually around 3500 to 4K and peak hp is 55-5800. The combination of parts choices will determine the best shift points. A lot of guys shift much higher than they should for the fastest acceleration. Just because an engine can rev to 6500 doesnt mean it will accelerate the car faster by doing it. By running a mediocre (for this application) head like the LA 340/360 factory heads you limit the airflow substantially at mid and higher rpms where a smaller cam and stockish port stall. You can run a larger cam so the valve is open longer and the port is in it's working range for longer, or you can run a more efficient (faster, less turbulent) port and not open the valve as far. Either way you need airflow. The XE268 opens the valves about .450int/.455exh because of the pushrod angles. Plus, they are not open for very long. 4" stroke engines do not move the piston away from top dead center as soon as stock strokes. They do move it a bit faster once it get's moving, but to make good power you have to have the valves open for a decent length of time. So what you have is a head that probably (well, guessing on my part) flows less than 180cfm at .300 and .400, and a valve that is closing just when the intake stroke is pulling the hardest. I like to use the percentages to help you understand. The crank is 21% longer stroke than a stock 318/340. You need to increase your airflow by at least that much just to stay even. The 230° @ .050 cam feeds a 340 well with those heads. Enough to make 350hp pretty easy. But if you keep the ports basically the same, the cam has to be much larger. If you increase the ports significantly (say 20% or from 200cfm to 240cfm) the camshaft can be more moderate, but you will still be missing out on decent power because the vavle is still closing when the port is really getting pulled and then pushed on.
 
moper
Again i think you've got partial information... Ping may come from hot corners but if you've got glowing red anywhere in there you've got more issues than a sharp corner... Detonation comes from poorly mixed intake charge and it can happen at any rpm or throttle, without you hearing it. Stock 70s low compression mopars are famous for it. In fact, take apart an 80s police interceptor 318 that came factory with the larger chamber head and you'll find carbon and oil residue around the edges of the open chambers. Because the heat never reaches the edges of the chambers. Excessive chamber volume leads to burn problems. That's why no factory uses them any more. The whole process of opening up a closed chamber to bore size is a waste IMO. I do use and unshrouding cut on the valve job but in the OP's case the gaskets are much bigger bore that even the 340 chamber, which is already way bigger than the 318 bore. All kinds of dead space.. not good IMO.


The reason you have carbon build up on the police interceptor motor [your example] is because THE COMPRESSION RATIO WAS IN THE 7's!!!!!!!!
THERES HARDLY ANY HEAT IN THAT CHAMBER......
I have pulled heads on open chamber motors that had good comp [9.1-10] and none have a crown of carbon like those pos interceptor motors, all were clean.My own 340 that I have had the heads off a couple times has no carbon build up either.
and oil residue has nothing to do open chamber heads, it;s called poor sealing rings/leaky guides.
your example is bogus.

AND I NEVER SAID TO OPEN A CLOSED CHAMBER HEAD UP TO THE BORE SIZE, I WAS SPEAKING OFR OPEN CHAMBER HEADS. geeezzzz
and you don't use the gasket as a reference genius..

and not all engines automatically make more power with a closed chamber, thats fact.
and chamber stick out pretty far and don't help anything..
 

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J head runner volume is 155-160cc and rhs is at 179cc intake runner.... on a 3.094 bore with unknown gearing and convertor.:toothy10:
 

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But wouldn't a bigger camshaft still move the powerband up? Just thinking. But the negative effects could be evened out with better flowing heads?
 
A larger cam will move the power band up yes, but bear in mind it's a relative thing. You're not talking about going to a 270° @ .050 deal that would really push it up. Try to think about what rpm range your gearing and convertor will want to be in. Most stret stuff is anywhere from 2200-5500 unless you're drag racing and you can adjust shift points there if you want to. Now with regard to the cams we are discussing... Your XE268 in the 390" should have a range of idle to 5000 give or take. Changing to a cam that will go from 1500-5500 is a small change that really only extends the rpm range you use (2500-5500). With the stroke of that thing, cams "feel" a lot smaller. Even if one has great ports there needs to be enough lift and duration to let the stroke help feed it.
A head that flows better in the lift area of your cam allows more air to enter with the less lift.
 
But wouldn't a bigger camshaft still move the powerband up?

In short, yes.


Just thinking. But the negative effects could be evened out with better flowing heads?

Yes, in the power/performance depot.

In the case of raged edge compression vs octane, no.

Are you looking to squeeze as much compression and power out of 390 cid's as possible?
If you are, then start spending and change everything, seriously=better heads, 846 icons or better yet=ross, h beams, ported intake, solid roller...we could keep on with improvement all day, why stop with $1300 in heads for 12hp [by quench alone, not counting flow]? LOL

If you are simply looking for basically a hot street/strip motor, don't s[end 1300+ dollars for a half a point/12hp.

If you were here 6 months ago, and hadn't bought anything yet, asking ...I would ask you how much money you had to spend...
If you had it in the budget, then the rhs head would be recommended, but at this point the power gained vs cost to switch is not worth it AND you would need a lot of other parts to really make them worth itimo
but definitely use a bigger cam than the 268*, we can all agree on that.
something like-238-248*@.050,
I'd rather see u use the mp .528lift 241*@.050 60*o lap 112*cl 28-6900 rpm advertised, then that comp 268* cam.....at least it would rev to 6k+ and would be decent with the 9.5 comp you're looking at 'at the moment'


There are guys on here with next to stock iron open chamber heads on 408's w/ small cams making 420-461hp 475-538ftlbs of torque.

as long you don't run around on 7.8 static comp lol, you won't have carbon/dead spots n all the other campfire stories you've been hearing.
 
Trying to stay on topic here...
Typically these strokers make max power below 6K. We're talking street engines not race engines in street cars. Peak torque is usually around 3500 to 4K and peak hp is 55-5800. The combination of parts choices will determine the best shift points. A lot of guys shift much higher than they should for the fastest acceleration. Just because an engine can rev to 6500 doesnt mean it will accelerate the car faster by doing it. By running a mediocre (for this application) head like the LA 340/360 factory heads you limit the airflow substantially at mid and higher rpms where a smaller cam and stockish port stall. You can run a larger cam so the valve is open longer and the port is in it's working range for longer, or you can run a more efficient (faster, less turbulent) port and not open the valve as far. Either way you need airflow. The XE268 opens the valves about .450int/.455exh because of the pushrod angles. Plus, they are not open for very long. 4" stroke engines do not move the piston away from top dead center as soon as stock strokes. They do move it a bit faster once it get's moving, but to make good power you have to have the valves open for a decent length of time. So what you have is a head that probably (well, guessing on my part) flows less than 180cfm at .300 and .400, and a valve that is closing just when the intake stroke is pulling the hardest. I like to use the percentages to help you understand. The crank is 21% longer stroke than a stock 318/340. You need to increase your airflow by at least that much just to stay even. The 230° @ .050 cam feeds a 340 well with those heads. Enough to make 350hp pretty easy. But if you keep the ports basically the same, the cam has to be much larger. If you increase the ports significantly (say 20% or from 200cfm to 240cfm) the camshaft can be more moderate, but you will still be missing out on decent power because the vavle is still closing when the port is really getting pulled and then pushed on.



1.88 valve j head, from the junk yard w/existing WORN OUT VALVE JOB, flowed [email protected] lift area...@25 depression
[email protected] lift with todays standard of 28inches depression, 189.44 @.350
Thats worn out, not fresh VJ or multi angle.

Just by sticking a 2.02 valve in and blending vj/throat [email protected], peaking @.450 w/216.42cfm

Lets not guess.
 
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