Need help with edelbrock 1406 carb

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Bewy said:
DM,
You can postulate all you like. Everything in post# 11 is true & correct.
Page 9 of the Edel tuning guide states a fuel starvation issue could be caused by low fuel pressure & 4-5 psi is reqd, MINIMUM. NOT MAXIMUM.

Further, Edel carbs come with the small 0.093" n/seats. The comp series Carter AFBs came with larger 0.1015" n/seats, with sizes as large as 0.120" available. Larger n/seats changes fuel level & makes fuel level harder to control, but up to 10 psi was controllable.

The metal in Edel carbs might be cheaper, but it does not cause flooding unless it is porous or seals fail to seal.

The OPs problem may well be a float issue, either leaking or binding.

You must be working on different Edel/AFB carbs than the rest of us. As long as the pressure is kept under 10 psi, the float tangs do not bend & claiming that 'high rpms' bends the tangs shows a lack of understanding how carburetion works. A LOT of fuel is being used at higher rpms, fuel level drops, & the float tang is less likely to be in contact with the needle. One of the causes of lean mixture at high rpms is insufficient fuel supply through the n/seat, float is lower not higher.
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If you are correct and you aren,t when you add a regulator the floats will not need readjusted. Why would a float still seep on anew carb. Well I looked and there was no trash. I googled the issue and found several people having this issue. Under high pressure and some of the new pumps are pushing 12 psi it not only floods the carb it BENDS the float tabs. I'm shocked that just because you have not had this issue that you ASSUME nobody else has ever had this issue. Pretty arrogant.

On some of these carbs the float tabs get bent from the excessive pressure and you MUST reset the float after installing a regulator. Maybe on a race car with a cam people don't realize it. On a car that runs like FI it's pretty noticeable and an easy fix. I have never blown a head gasket but it would be ignorant and arrogant of me so suggest it does not happen.
 
I found a copy of the edelbrock 1406 manual on the Jegs website. It says

“Avoid extremes in fuel pressure. At IDLE, there should not be any more than 6.0 psi; if the vehicle has an adjustable fuel-pressure regulator, set it to 5.5 psi. With most fuel pumps the minimum fuel pressure is encountered at high rpm and WOT. Fuel pressure should not drop below 2.0 psi. If it does, a fuel pump with more capacity may be required. Note that some later model vehicles (the 5.0L Ford is one example) have mechanical pumps that will give more than 6.0 psi at idle. The vehicle will perform well, but may be prone to stalls on quick turns and stops with the clutch disengaged. If this problem occurs, check the fuel pressure. If it is more than 6.0 psi at IDLE, it should be reduced through the use of a regulator, such as Edelbrock #8190, or by creating a restricted by-pass bleed to the fuel return line. Edelbrock Street Fuel Pumps are highly recommended for all Edelbrock Performer Series carburetor installations.”

The fuel pump on my Dart is the Delphi AMF0010 which the specs say is 6psi max.
 
1968 Dart 270 said:
I’m sure more than likely the issue is dirt because the previous owner had one of those clear plastic fuel filters in line and it did have a very small amount of sediment on the bottom.
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The stock fuel system would have a filter/sock at the tank pickup, a canister filter after the fuel pump, and then another filter under the Carter AVS fuel inlet. I'm thinking the only good filter in your system is the one that you changed.
 
440 Mike said:
The stock fuel system would have a filter/sock at the tank pickup, a canister filter after the fuel pump, and then another filter under the Carter AVS fuel inlet. I'm thinking the only good filter in your system is the one that you changed.
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Well,I don’t have the whole history of everything that was done to the car,but I do know the fuel sender assembly is brand new and was changed recently. I’m assuming they would have changed the strainer on the pickup line. I know I would have had I done it,but who knows. There wasn’t much sediment in the old fuel filter that was on the car when I bought it,but I did just change it.
I do wish,as you said,that it had the original carter carb. I’m not sure why they ditched it in favor of the edelbrock. The car ran like a top when I bought it though. At a light it idled so smooth it was hard to believe the engine was on.
 
Have you taken carb apart? George Jets posted a pic to show you how flipping easy it is to take the top off and inspect.
2 pages and we are already into another pissing match....
 
Dmopower,
Post #26. The more you post on this, the more you show lack of knowledge:
- fuel level can rise [ seep ] for other reasons than trash. Improperly machined fuel inlet seat, deformed needle, needle a sloppy fit, excess pressure & leaking gasket can all cause the problem.
- for the purposes of the engine in question, & I am assuming a mech engine driven fuel pump, the problem with a 12 psi pump is the pump, not a regulator reqd to fix a faulty pump.
- no, the tangs do not bend on the floats from excess pressure. The fuel level simply rises...& the carb floods. Once the fuel rises above the float, you now have the weight of the fuel pushing DOWN on top of the float as a counter force.
 
Carter fuel pressure/float setting. Note 10 psi.

img208.jpg
 
Uhhhhh. Yes & no if you are referring to the AFB/AVS models. Edel copied the the Carter & many parts are interchangeable. You could swap the top of the #1406 Edel carb mentioned in this thread with a Carter #96XX carb, & both will work as they did before.
There were changes in the boosters, but they can be swapped between Edel & Carter bodies.
The only area I am aware of that Edel changed was the acc pump. The inlet valve used on the Carter was eliminated.
 
I have been running carters/edelbrocks for over 30 years almost exclusively and never had a flooding problem when using stock style fuel pump.
The OP probably has a sunk float or trash in the needle valve.
 
MoparMike1974 said:
I have been running carters/edelbrocks for over 30 years almost exclusively and never had a flooding problem when using stock style fuel pump.
The OP probably has a sunk float or trash in the needle valve.
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Yeah,I’m sure you’re likely right. I ordered a rebuild kit online for it and plan on taking it apart and cleaning it when I’m off work.
I appreciate all the advice here. It’s good to hear others say that the mechanical pumps should be fine without a regulator.
My car does have a mechanical pump it’s a Delphi mf0010 the specs say it’s 6psi max.
 
2 cents-

I have several Edelbrock 500, 650, and 750 AFB style carbs on everything from a 318, to a 440.

The manual does say a regulator is recommended, but none of mine have one and all run good, pretty much box stock.

The good thing for the OP, is that they are extremely easy to take apart and work on.

None of mine have required any parts, but several have required a good cleaning.

If you're careful, you can even get the top off without tearing the gasket.

The worst part is being careful not to drop screws or small parts into it !!

Take the top off, look at the float, and clean out the needle and seat out if necessary.
 
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YY1 said:
2 cents-

I have several Edelbrock 500, 650, and 750 AFB style carbs on everything from a 318, to a 440.

The manual does say a regulator is recommended, but none of mine have one and all run good, pretty much box stock.

The good thing for the OP, is that they are extremely easy to take apart and work on.

None of mine have required any parts, but several have required a good cleaning.

If you're careful, you can even get the top off without tearing the gasket.

The worst part is being careful not to drop and screws or small parts into it !!

Take the top off, look at the float, and clean it out if necessary.
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Thanks,I’m going to take it off the car this morning before work. Hopefully none of the gaskets will rip. Anybody here try any of the cheap gasket kits off Amazon or eBay for these carbs? If so which would you recommend? You can shell out $53 for the edelbrock one but there’s tons of them on Amazon for $18-19. On eBay you can get them as low as $16 with free shipping.
The edelbrock may be much higher quality though. Any thoughts on this?
 
I have used the china knock off carb kits and had no issues. Everything fit as it should and worked great for about 1/3 the price.
 
MoparMike1974 said:
I have used the china knock off carb kits and had no issues. Everything fit as it should and worked great for about 1/3 the price.
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Thanks for the feedback on the aftermarket kits. I had bought edelbrock one for $53 already because it was made in USA and I wasn’t sure about the quality of the Chinese ones being sold for $15-19.
 
My 1406 had a float that filled with gas. My buddy and I replaced (and adjusted) both of the floats and all was well again.

 
DartGTDan said:
My 1406 had a float that filled with gas. My buddy and I replaced (and adjusted) both of the floats and all was well again.

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Rebuilt mine today with the edelbrock kit. It was dark by the time I got it back on the car. Ran smooth,doesn’t seem to be flooding. Took it out for about 15 minutes so it got warm. Came to a light and the engine idled smooth but then stumbles and smooths out again,but once your accelerating it runs fine. Guess it will need more adjustment. I didn’t get to mess with the mixture screws much since it was very windy out and I didn’t want to have the air cleaner off.
Having another issue now too. Guess I’ll post that on another location
 
I have found that you can generally re-use the gaskets on these carbs if you are careful with disassembly & do not rip them.
 
Bewy said:
Dmopower,
Post #26. The more you post on this, the more you show lack of knowledge:
- fuel level can rise [ seep ] for other reasons than trash. Improperly machined fuel inlet seat, deformed needle, needle a sloppy fit, excess pressure & leaking gasket can all cause the problem.
- for the purposes of the engine in question, & I am assuming a mech engine driven fuel pump, the problem with a 12 psi pump is the pump, not a regulator reqd to fix a faulty pump.
- no, the tangs do not bend on the floats from excess pressure. The fuel level simply rises...& the carb floods. Once the fuel rises above the float, you now have the weight of the fuel pushing DOWN on top of the float as a counter force.
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Fair enough let's approach this another angle. Explain why the carb still seeps after installing a regulator and set it at 5 psi? Then only after adjusting the float tab (as indicated by dozens of other users who are reporting 10 plus psi at the carb under acceleration does it stop leaking.)

This is downright laughable. "Once the fuel rises above the float, you now have the weight of the fuel pushing DOWN on top of the float as a counter force."

The carb still seeps after installing a regulator because??????
 
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Regulator inaccurate/faulty? Gauge inaccurate? Faulty pump? I gave a whole list of reasons as to why the n/seats can leak. None of this is rocket science.

If you do not understand the concept of the fuel rising above the floats [ because the n/seats are failing to control the fuel entry ], completely filling the bowls [ & often spewing out the carb top ], & the weight of that fuel countering the buoyancy of the float, then you need to get hold of a physics book &...........read it.

So now the fairy story changes again.... Where are the 'dozens of others' reporting 10 plus psi under acceleration. What does that mean? It was Xpsi while cruising & goes to 10 under acceleration?
 
1968 Dart 270 said:
Yeah,I’m sure you’re likely right. I ordered a rebuild kit online for it and plan on taking it apart and cleaning it when I’m off work.
I appreciate all the advice here. It’s good to hear others say that the mechanical pumps should be fine without a regulator.
My car does have a mechanical pump it’s a Delphi mf0010 the specs say it’s 6psi max.
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I have a stock style carter mechanical pump on my Duster and it will creep up to 9 psi at idle.

Carter M6866 Carter Muscle Car Mechanical Fuel Pumps | Summit Racing

So unless you have put a gauge on your pump, who knows what it puts out.
 
Just to get back to the original problem - if you have a good in line fuel filter, how did the crap get into the carb and hold the needle up to flood the carb? Not once, but then after you cleared it using the TrailBeast method, to have it happen again? Maybe the crap is being manufactured in the carb... you are using fuel with ethanol in it aren't you?
 
An addendum to the flooding issue.

A friend purchased an overhaul kit for a Carter #9626 carb & it came from the US [ Amazon, I think ]. It cost $US33. Junk. The hole in the acc pump shaft for the 'S' link was too small, I had to drill it out.
Here is the real kicker: the hole in the n/seat was 5/32" [ 0.156" ]!!!! I used the old seat [ looked to be 0.101" or 0.111" ] with the new needles. The new seats would almost certainly have caused flooding with high-er fuel pressures.
Since this thread was about Edel carbs, here are some real #s. Edel use small 0.093" fuel seats, for reasons known only by Edel. The area of a 0.093" hole is 0.006793 sq in; for a 0.156" hole it is 0.01913" sq in, nearly 3 times more area. So the fuel pressure acting on the needle has nearly 3 times more area to act on & cause flooding.

I can only guess why Edel uses such a low fuel level [ 7/16" float setting ] along with such small n/seats. The lower fuel level gives less chance of fuel slosh causing stumble/cutting out during braking & cornering. The change in the fuel curve [ compared to the original Carter settings ] can be adjusted with jet & air bleed changes.
Small n/seats are good for fuel control but they must be big enough to supply sufficient fuel.It is a compromise. The fuel flow chart provided by Carter is pretty useless as it gives fuel flow with the floats at a 2" drop...which is much more than it is in a working carb. So actual flow #s would be much less than the chart shows.
The Edel 800 carbs also come with the small 0.093" seats. One wonders if these will cause lean out on high HP engines, with bigger jets being fitted to fix the 'problem'.
 
This is why I like to use a clear glass fuel filter.

The last fuel issue I had turned out to be a metal line rusting out on the inside.

The clear filter let me see the particles.

Replaced the line from a hose connection to the pump and the problem went away.
 
Good info, but I think the issue is/was his fuel pump mounting bolt hole.
The OP started a thread on that.
str12-340 said:
Just to get back to the original problem - if you have a good in line fuel filter, how did the crap get into the carb and hold the needle up to flood the carb? Not once, but then after you cleared it using the TrailBeast method, to have it happen again? Maybe the crap is being manufactured in the carb... you are using fuel with ethanol in it aren't you?
Click to expand...
 
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