Need some help on pulley sizing

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daddio4048

Daddios72
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I have a 340 with the dual crank pulley & single water pump pulley. Rear crank pulley is a 6-1/2" diameter & the water pump is a 6-7/8" diameter. From what I'm understanding that combo gives you a slight under drive on the water pump. I'm needing to get a little more fan speed at idle. I'm looking at CVF's pulleys where they are a 1 to 1 ratio on the pulleys & say they are for high flow applications. Is there a stock combo that I could use to achieve this?
 
to answer your question;
Is there a stock combo that I could use to achieve this?
answer; yes
but
If you overdrive your water pump at idle, to get some fan-speed, this will also overdrive it at 7000 rpm...... just saying. Which will or may, increase the likelihood of throwing a belt, resulting in possibly, an engine meltdown.
Therefore
IMO, it is better to solve your low speed/idle heating problems in the conventional way.
Just so you know;
I run the same underdrive ratio that you currently have, on my 400hp 360/4-speed, and she will idle down see, note-1
IMO, and it may be mine alone, I get it, but here it is anyway; see note-2
But consider this;
your current pully ratio is 6.5/6.875= .945:1
Going to 1:1=1.00; at 700 idle rpm this is a difference of 38rpm.
In another life I would have said; gimmee a break, if your combo has to depend on 38rpm, your system is way effed up.
If you have overheating problems, start a new thread and tell us what you have, what you don't have, what it's doing and when. see note-3
In my case,
I had to take the engine apart and loosen the skirt clearance and increase the ring-gaps.

Note-1
I run the same underdrive ratio that you currently have, on my 400hp 360/4-speed, and she will idle down
to 550 in gear and pulling herself in a parade, with 5 measly degrees of advance.......... and she has cruised all day geared at 65=1600, with normal advance, so, jus saying .......... it can be done.
And the 20 plus years old belt, stays on, at 7200 and more.

Note-2
Too many SBM guys make too big a deal about pully ratios, and way too big a deal about radiator sizing. My rad is a factory rad out of a 73 to 75 Dart 318-auto- A/C car . Even the patches have patches.
My secret is that I also use the shroud, and the 7-blade all-steel fan, both from that same donor-car, but mounted it on a Ford pick-up thermostatic clutch fan, that keeps the coolant at 205 to 207 degrees, by cutting in and out as may be required. and that's a 26"rad running in the factory-stock 6-cylinder core support, in a 68 Barracuda.
My hot-running ended in 2002 or thereabouts.
Jus saying.

Note-3
If you have overheating problems, start a new thread and tell us what you have, what you don't have, what it's doing and when.
My Engine went from running hot and locking up at shut-down, to, afterwards it won't hardly heat at all. and it gained some low-rpm torque, and now has a sweet idle. even down to 550 with that cam.
How many guys on FABO had to go this route?
Mostly, they just throw parts at the problem, and live with it.
Btw, at the time I was having this problem, the engine was running a 292/292/108 cam @11.3 Scr, @ any idle-timing, and no amount of idle-timing would cure it, nor idle-rpm.
Afterwards, like said; it would idle down to 550 in gear, and pulling itself, with just 5* of Idle-advance, with a starter gear of 2.66 x 3.55= 9.44.
My attempt at solving this prior to tear-down included;
A) the engine was already set-up with the aforementioned rad, a 5-blade direct-drive fan, a shroud, an 8-vane factory pump, alloy heads, an Airgap intake, and TTI unwrapped headers with full-length dual 3 inch pipes and 3-pass dynomax mufflers.
B) my changes included;
pully ratios, more fan blades, several different sized restrictor washers, bypass restriction, a hi-flow Milodon pump WITH a hi-flow stat, a 7qt roadrace oilpan with lots of surface area for oil-cooling, and
Nothing worked;
Until I took it apart, and got to the source.

Good luck
 
Last edited:
Note 1. Chrysler used over driven water pumps all the time.

The billet junk of the early 1990’s was the start of all these under drive pulleys and lived through it.

I’ve fixed more overheating bullshit in more critical builds than I care to think about.

If you throw a fan belt at 7k you have the wrong belt or pulley misalignment or something. I know because I turned a water pump 10% over on my race car and I shifted (most of the time) at 8500 and I never ever lost a belt.

A high volume pump, over driven with the biggest 2 core (1 inch core minimum) radiator you can fit and a quality high flow thermostat and you can cool any engine regardless of how much power it makes while driving right through downtown hell.

You know when you have it right because you can drop a 160 thermostat in and it will stay at 160 regardless of conditions.

I don’t get skimping on cooling. Make the thermostat do what it’s designed to and make it regulate the engine temperature rather than relying on all the other pieces to do what they can’t.
 
to answer your question;

answer; yes
but
If you overdrive your water pump at idle, to get some fan-speed, this will also overdrive it at 7000 rpm...... just saying. Which will or may, increase the likelihood of throwing a belt, resulting in possibly, an engine meltdown.
Therefore
IMO, it is better to solve your low speed/idle heating problems in the conventional way.
Just so you know;
I run the same underdrive ratio that you currently have, on my 400hp 360/4-speed, and she will idle down see, note-1
IMO, and it may be mine alone, I get it, but here it is anyway; see note-2
But consider this;
your current pully ratio is 6.5/6.875= .945:1
Going to 1:1=1.00; at 700 idle rpm this is a difference of 38rpm.
In another life I would have said; gimmee a break, if your combo has to depend on 38rpm, your system is way effed up.
If you have overheating problems, start a new thread and tell us what you have, what you don't have, what it's doing and when. see note-3
In my case,
I had to take the engine apart and loosen the skirt clearance and increase the ring-gaps.

Note-1
I run the same underdrive ratio that you currently have, on my 400hp 360/4-speed, and she will idle down
to 550 in gear and pulling herself in a parade, with 5 measly degrees of advance.......... and she has cruised all day geared at 65=1600, with normal advance, so, jus saying .......... it can be done.
And the 20 plus years old belt, stays on, at 7200 and more.

Note-2
Too many SBM guys make too big a deal about pully ratios, and way too big a deal about radiator sizing. My rad is a factory rad out of a 73 to 75 Dart 318-auto- A/C car . Even the patches have patches.
My secret is that I also use the shroud, and the 7-blade all-steel fan, both from that same donor-car, but mounted it on a Ford pick-up thermostatic clutch fan, that keeps the coolant at 205 to 207 degrees, by cutting in and out as may be required. and that's a 26"rad running in the factory-stock 6-cylinder core support, in a 68 Barracuda.
My hot-running ended in 2002 or thereabouts.
Jus saying.

Note-3
If you have overheating problems, start a new thread and tell us what you have, what you don't have, what it's doing and when.
My Engine went from running hot and locking up at shut-down, to, afterwards it won't hardly heat at all. and it gained some low-rpm torque, and now has a sweet idle. even down to 550 with that cam.
How many guys on FABO had to go this route?
Mostly, they just throw parts at the problem, and live with it.
Btw, at the time I was having this problem, the engine was running a 292/292/108 cam @11.3 Scr, @ any idle-timing, and no amount of idle-timing would cure it, nor idle-rpm.
Afterwards, like said; it would idle down to 550 in gear, and pulling itself, with just 5* of Idle-advance, with a starter gear of 2.66 x 3.55= 9.44.
My attempt at solving this prior to tear-down included;
A) the engine was already set-up with the aforementioned rad, a 5-blade direct-drive fan, a shroud, an 8-vane factory pump, alloy heads, an Airgap intake, and TTI unwrapped headers with full-length dual 3 inch pipes and 3-pass dynomax mufflers.
B) my changes included;
pully ratios, more fan blades, several different sized restrictor washers, bypass restriction, a hi-flow Milodon pump WITH a hi-flow stat, a 7qt roadrace oilpan with lots of surface area for oil-cooling, and
Nothing worked;
Until I took it apart, and got to the source.

Good luck
Wouldn't ring gap cause overheating at idle & driving ? My issue is at idle; not driving. My temp runs around 190 on the road; but creeps up in traffic.You have to remember that I live in South Georgia where heat & humidity are brutal.
 
Wouldn't ring gap cause overheating at idle & driving ? My issue is at idle; not driving. My temp runs around 190 on the road; but creeps up in traffic.You have to remember that I live in South Georgia where heat & humidity are brutal.


They’d have to be butting to cause overheating.
 
Not to argue with anyone but at one point I had a 64/65 street hemi crank pulley like 4.75 inches in diameter and ultimately when I swapped to a later equal size 5 and change water pump pulley sized one my car has stayed at 180 ever since. It was never hot but now it's super consistently at the same temp. As always the same disclaimer...."Yoir results may vary"
 
Wouldn't ring gap cause overheating at idle & driving ? My issue is at idle; not driving. My temp runs around 190 on the road; but creeps up in traffic.You have to remember that I live in South Georgia where heat & humidity are brutal.
on the most basic of terms you have a problem with water flow or air flow (or both), or your radiator is inadequately sized.

so maybe it's a little bit of all three converging into a perfect nexus of overheating.

and what's overheating? stock gauge is pegged up hot? aftermarket gauge is reading 210? it's boiling over and puking its guts out?

so to circle it back: radiator 1st, is it sufficient? pump, does it provide adequate flow? fan, does it move enough air?

then you have all the secondary items: thermostatic clutch, shroud, distance of fan to radiator, opening for the radiator, thermostat, pulley selection, tune. but here's the deal, none, and i mean none of that matters if you have a crap radiator in there.
 
Dimensions of my 2 Dart pulleys. Approx 5 3/4" top, 6 1/2" bottom. 5 1/2" top, 7" bottom. Neither have a cooling problem. My '69 is a 418 stroker, Flowkooler water pump and Cold Case radiator. My stock 318 a/c car has a stock water pump and stock Glen Ray radiator. Both have the 2863 216/215 fan and Hayden #2947 clutch.
 
on the most basic of terms you have a problem with water flow or air flow (or both), or your radiator is inadequately sized.

so maybe it's a little bit of all three converging into a perfect nexus of overheating.

and what's overheating? stock gauge is pegged up hot? aftermarket gauge is reading 210? it's boiling over and puking its guts out?

so to circle it back: radiator 1st, is it sufficient? pump, does it provide adequate flow? fan, does it move enough air?

then you have all the secondary items: thermostatic clutch, shroud, distance of fan to radiator, opening for the radiator, thermostat, pulley selection, tune. but here's the deal, none, and i mean none of that matters if you have a crap radiator in there.
Running a ECP 2 row 1 inch tube. 5 blade viscous fan with clutch & factory fan shroud. That's what's been puzzling.
 
Running a ECP 2 row 1 inch tube. 5 blade viscous fan with clutch & factory fan shroud. That's what's been puzzling.
those radiators seem to be well regarded, but i don't know enough about them to make a call one way or the other.

the fan/shroud and clutch are solid choices.

what's the water pump, how close is the fan, t-stat? when was the last time the block was flushed?

running hot> on the factory gauge, aftermarket gauge, or with a IR temp gun? boiling over?
 
those radiators seem to be well regarded, but i don't know enough about them to make a call one way or the other.

the fan/shroud and clutch are solid choices.

what's the water pump, how close is the fan, t-stat? when was the last time the block was flushed?

running hot> on the factory gauge, aftermarket gauge, or with a IR temp gun? boiling over?
Water pump is a flo kooler. Using 3/4" restrictor instead of thermostat. Fan is about an inch away from radiator
 
Dimensions of my 2 Dart pulleys. Approx 5 3/4" top, 6 1/2" bottom. 5 1/2" top, 7" bottom. Neither have a cooling problem. My '69 is a 418 stroker, Flowkooler water pump and Cold Case radiator. My stock 318 a/c car has a stock water pump and stock Glen Ray radiator. Both have the 2863 216/215 fan and Hayden #2947 clutch.
Are those double pulleys on the crank?
 
Water pump is a flo kooler. Using 3/4" restrictor instead of thermostat. Fan is about an inch away from radiator
put in a thermostat and see what it does. and get a decent one for cripe's sake, not no vato zone special.

also more directly, i've asked twice:

running hot> on the factory gauge, aftermarket gauge, or with a IR temp gun? boiling over?
 
Water pump is a flo kooler. Using 3/4" restrictor instead of thermostat. Fan is about an inch away from radiator

That 3/4 inch restriction is probably a bigger restriction than a good high flow thermostat.

I’ve never been a fan of restricters on race engines and don’t line them at all on street driven engines.
 
put in a thermostat and see what it does. and get a decent one for cripe's sake, not no vato zone special.

also more directly, i've asked twice:

running hot> on the factory gauge, aftermarket gauge, or with a IR temp gun? boiling over?
Have two gauges. One for Sniper EFI & one for electronic speed hut gsuges that are running the same temp.
 
put in a thermostat and see what it does. and get a decent one for cripe's sake, not no vato zone special.

also more directly, i've asked twice:

running hot> on the factory gauge, aftermarket gauge, or with a IR temp gun? boiling over?
Both electronic gauges. One for Sniper & one for dash gauge. Both reading same. Not boiling over. IR temp gun about same as gauges on car. I have run a Stewart hi flo thermostat with sane effect
 
Dimensions of my 2 Dart pulleys. Approx 5 3/4" top, 6 1/2" bottom. 5 1/2" top, 7" bottom. Neither have a cooling problem. My '69 is a 418 stroker, Flowkooler water pump and Cold Case radiator. My stock 318 a/c car has a stock water pump and stock Glen Ray radiator. Both have the 2863 216/215 fan and Hayden #2947 clutch.
Where did you find those pulleys? Do you have a photo of those setups? Are they single groove?

I haven't been able to find any single v-groove pairs that overdrive the w/p. I could be wrong, but I think the only overdriven sets from the factory all had a ton of grooves on the crank pulley.
 
My 418 is single pulley, the stock 318 has A/C, so dual belts, it's a '72. Oh, and stock fan shrouds, Robert Shaw hi flow thermostats, the old style large ones, '370's '.
 
Is your fan half in / half out of the shroud? I found out the hard way that it is a really big deal at idle.
 
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