neutral reverse switch or what ?? help

[Bulldozer]

i just swapped out my 6/3 speed manual for a 318/727. the 3 speed has a 2 prong connector from the engine harness to the transmission. of course i had to unplug it . the 727 is a 67 model and i am not using the neutral reverse switch. the first time i went to fire the 318 today , i had no power at the key BUT i was able to jump it at the starter relay with the key on and it started and ran. after shutting it off, i was able to start it with the key a few times with no problem. but now ,once again ,i cant start it with key and i have to jump it at the relay. i have never had a problem before the swap. could it be the connector i unplugged from the 3 speed? can i just jump a wire from one side of the connector to the other?does it matter if i do anything with it? is this related to intermittant power to the key? any idea why i am only getting sporatic power at the key? should i just connect a push button start at the relay? i really need some help here.the car is a 73 duster. thanks in advance!

 

[67Dart273]

I'm guessing you had a clutch safety switch? Look at your starter relay. The older "stick" relays only had 3 terminals, only ONE "push on" terminal

The automatic and "clutch safety" relays have FOUR terminals, TWO of which are a "push on" terminal.

One of the two push-on terminals gets power "in start" from a (usually) yellow wire, coming from the bulkhead, which comes from the ignition switch, powered when you twist the key to "start."

The remaining "push on" terminal goes to the clutch safety switch on a stick car, or down to the transmission neutral switch on an auto car

In either case, that terminal must see a ground to start the car. On the older transmissions, with only one terminal neutral switch, just run ONE wire from the remaining push-on terminal of the start relay to the terminal of your neutral switch

On newer transmissions with 3 terminal switches, the two outer terminals are reverse lights, the CENTER terminal goes up to the start relay

If you have a 67 trans, it should only have a one-terminal switch

To get your reverse lights to work, you'll have to install a switch on the shift linkage, which may already be there. What are you using for a shifter?

PLEASE hook this up. It is far too dangerous to "forget" that one time and start the car in gear.

 

[Bulldozer]

the pic isnt that great but, the bottom left is the yellow wire you speak of.the bottom right is grounded(although it doesnt appear to be that good of a ground) the middle and the top is where i have to jump it with a screwdriver. the two prong connector where i unplugged the 3 speed transmission, do i need to do something with that? or it just for the reverse lights? do i need to replace the relay with one for an automatic or does it matter as long as this one is grounded? sorry for the questions but im at a loss here. is it ok to just wire a push button start between the top and middle terminals?does it matter if the clutch is to the floor or in its normal position? by the way i turned the key just now and nothing. i have power to everything but the key,and thank you for your help!

 

[Bulldozer]

btw im using a console shifter out of a 77 charger which has no provision for a connector or switch of any kind for the neutral/reverse. i am just needing this thing to start at key.im not worried about reverse lights or potentially starting in gear .this is my DD and i cant be out in the cold with the hood up trying to start it in the morning before work lol. and yes that is snow next to the relay in the above pic! no worries tho that stuff is really dry.

 

[67Dart273]

OK, you have a correct relay, that is for a clutch switch OR for automatic

First order of business is to take a test lamp and be sure that you are getting power to the relay "in start." Hook your light to the yellow wire on the relay and twist the key, light should come on. You can do that by just sticking the probe in the back of the connector while still on the relay.

Now see if the other wire really is grounded. With both wires still properly hooked to the relay, stick you lamp into the second "push on" wire and twist the key. If the light comes on, that wire is NOT grounding the relay.

If the light does NOT come on when hooked to the second wire, sounds like your relay coil went bad.

Here's how this works:

The great big stud on the relay acts as a junction AND is one contact of the relay, the square terminal is the second contact of the relay. When the relay is made, it jumpers battery power down to the starter solenoid.

The two "push on" connectors are the coil. The yellow brings 12V "in start" from the key to one side of the coil. The coil needs a ground. ON an auto car, the second "push on" terminal is grounded when the NSS is activated in park or neutral. ON a stick car, that terminal is grounded by the clutch safety switch when you depress the clutch.

The two wires which went to your 4 speed are indeed the reverse lamps.

On early cars with single pin NSS, the reverse switch was on the shift linkage

On later cars with 3 pin NSS, the NSS circuit was the center pin, the revers lights the outer two.

I don't know of an easy way to get your reverse lamps working, perhaps build a bracket to mount a microswitch. I believe Hurst and B*M both have accessory switch kits for their shifters, you might be able to adapt one of those. There might be some guys here with BM/ Hurst shifters not using their switches (using instead the transmission switch) you might put out a want ad after you decide

You can NOT put a 3 pin switch into an earlier transmission. The "rooster comb" inside which activates the switch will not operate the reverse function.

 

[Bulldozer]

OK, you have a correct relay, that is for a clutch switch OR for automatic

First order of business is to take a test lamp and be sure that you are getting power to the relay "in start." Hook your light to the yellow wire on the relay and twist the key, light should come on. You can do that by just sticking the probe in the back of the connector while still on the relay.

Now see if the other wire really is grounded. With both wires still properly hooked to the relay, stick you lamp into the second "push on" wire and twist the key. If the light comes on, that wire is NOT grounding the relay.

If the light does NOT come on when hooked to the second wire, sounds like your relay coil went bad.

Here's how this works:

The great big stud on the relay acts as a junction AND is one contact of the relay, the square terminal is the second contact of the relay. When the relay is made, it jumpers battery power down to the starter solenoid.

The two "push on" connectors are the coil. The yellow brings 12V "in start" from the key to one side of the coil. The coil needs a ground. ON an auto car, the second "push on" terminal is grounded when the NSS is activated in park or neutral. ON a stick car, that terminal is grounded by the clutch safety switch when you depress the clutch.

The two wires which went to your 4 speed are indeed the reverse lamps.

On early cars with single pin NSS, the reverse switch was on the shift linkage

On later cars with 3 pin NSS, the NSS circuit was the center pin, the revers lights the outer two.

I don't know of an easy way to get your reverse lamps working, perhaps build a bracket to mount a microswitch. I believe Hurst and B*M both have accessory switch kits for their shifters, you might be able to adapt one of those. There might be some guys here with BM/ Hurst shifters not using their switches (using instead the transmission switch) you might put out a want ad after you decide

You can NOT put a 3 pin switch into an earlier transmission. The "rooster comb" inside which activates the switch will not operate the reverse function.

thank you 67dart273!! i did as you instructed and guess what? you guessed it a bad ground.there was a pin connector between the ground wire that wasnt completely plugged in and was barely connected.i elminated the connector and it turned right over- problem solved.i didnt forget the thanks button !

 

[67Dart273]

You're welcome. These are pretty simple once you understand them.

 

[green1]

You can change the comb.