I thought I had my starter problem worked out by installing a new ignition switch. My '73 Duster, 4 speed engages the starter when I push the clutch in. The Forum searches tend to lean towards a bad ignition switch but that's last on my list of things to look at right now. Any suggestions where to look?
New ignition but starter engages with clutch in
- Thread starter Big D
- Start date
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The clutch safety switch is used to control the power to the starter relay. So when the clutch is depressed all the way own it opens the clutch safety switch to allow power to engage the starter when the key is turned. So I would think it is the clutch safety switch or starter relay.
Did this probably all of the sudden start happening?
Did this probably all of the sudden start happening?
All of a sudden? Well, yes and no. This car has been an ongoing project for a year and a half now, and I've worked through disconnecting the seat belt relay switch with a fix to make that work after installing the wiring harness from a '74 Duster. And all I've done is start it to break in the cam but haven't yet put it in gear to drive. But after starting it this weekend to test the clutch, I found the starter engaging. Never needed to put the clutch in as of yet.
I did have safety switch problems but that works as expected now - sort of.
I did have safety switch problems but that works as expected now - sort of.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
I'm wondering if you screwed up when you bypassed the seat relay?
Essentially, here's the path to activate the starter relay:
Starting from ground, you have:
ground----clutch switch----one terminal of start relay---relay coil---other terminal of start relay---yellow----seat relay----yellow-----bulkhead connector----wire to ignition switch "start" connection.
I suppose the start relay could be screwed up internally. Easy to check that. Identify the clutch wire, pull the OPPOSITE wire off and see if the clutch causes it to crank.
Then check with a test lamp to see if the wire you pulled off is hot. It should ONLY be hot with the key in "start." Then go back to the seat relay and see what you bypassed there. As I recall there's two predominately yellow wires that should be jumpered. (One may have a tracer)
Essentially, here's the path to activate the starter relay:
Starting from ground, you have:
ground----clutch switch----one terminal of start relay---relay coil---other terminal of start relay---yellow----seat relay----yellow-----bulkhead connector----wire to ignition switch "start" connection.
I suppose the start relay could be screwed up internally. Easy to check that. Identify the clutch wire, pull the OPPOSITE wire off and see if the clutch causes it to crank.
Then check with a test lamp to see if the wire you pulled off is hot. It should ONLY be hot with the key in "start." Then go back to the seat relay and see what you bypassed there. As I recall there's two predominately yellow wires that should be jumpered. (One may have a tracer)
On that seat belt relay, I probably did screw that up. On my prior searches for bypassing the seatbelt interlock, I found that I could jump the two yellow wires together (one solid and one with tracer) and the starter worked great. But now hindsight tells me that my quick fix only allowed me to start it but not allow the clutch to work. In looking at the '73 and '74 wiring diagrams, the solid yellow wire is the ignition 2 wire and I spliced the yellow with tracer, ignition 1 wire, together. So now I'm back to square one figuring out the interlock mess again.
I will use your "starting from ground" pointers. Yes, I even identify your schematic as how it should be, but dang plastic wrap is in my way to see how the wires separate. I'll check it tomorrow.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
No if you hooked the two prominant yellows together it should be OK
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=14304&highlight=interlock
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=14304&highlight=interlock
The relay cannot send fire to the starter without two things. The clutch depressed and the ignition switch in the start position. If the starter is engaging while the clutch pedal is depressed, you have just proven THREE things work AS INTENDED. The clutch starter switch, the starter relay and the starter. By simple process of elimination, the ignition switch is BAD.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
As I mentioned above, it is POSSIBLE that a problem in the starter relay has shorted the hot battery connection to one side of the relay coil inside the relay. As I mentioned, just yanking the start signal wire off will find this out immediately.
I haven't seen any ignition switches fail in this manner, although I'm sure anything is possible. I'd bet more likely a short inside a harness (melted insulation) or he somehow crossed up when bypassing the seat relay.
I understand what you're sayin now. Thanks for spellin it out. Sometimes I get stuck on stupid. I bet that's what it is. Just like the old Ford starter solenoids that welded themselves together every now and then. Same thing.
It turns out that I had the yellow with tracer wire from the interlock switch connected to the yellow wire to the starter relay. I disconnected the yellow with tracer from the interlock and kept the yellow wire from ignition to relay intact. The result is that it works as intended.
The basic schematic was helpful. When it doubt, go back to basics.
The basic schematic was helpful. When it doubt, go back to basics.
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