New motor blowing oil on headers

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cody72dart

cody72dart

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Hey everyone. This is my first post on here. Okay I have a 69 dart with a 410 stroker. This is the first motor that I've built. It has an Eagle forged crank and H beam rods, Mahle flat top pistons, stage 2 Eddy heads ported by Ryan at Shady Dell, Racer Brown .264/.268 solid cam, 1.6 Harland Sharp roller rockers. Its got a 950 Holley XP running on E85, which I'm very new to btw.
The problem that I'm having is at WOT I'm getting a massive amount of smoke behind the car. I first thought it was coming from the exhaust. I though maybe the rings hadn't seated yet. I drive it around a while and beat on it and it still was smoking bad. I drove the car without the hood and realized the oil is coming from the engine bay. Upon further research, oil is covering the bottom of the engine and blowing on the passnger side header. Its only leaking while driving and really only smokes at hard throttle. Doesnt have to be WOT just any hard acceleration.
It has a Milodon deep pan and one piece gasket. Brand new oem timing chain cover. I had a hard time pressing on the ATI Super Damper and it appears that that is where the oil leak is coming from. Would not having the balancer pressed on all the way cause a leak? I used an ARP harmonic balancer bolt. They have a couple different lengths, I bought the long one and still could only get a few threads in with the washer they provided. The head of the bolt seamed big enough in diameter so I used blue loctite and left the washer off. Could oil be getting out from there?
I'm lost here guys. Has anyone ran accross this before?
 
Welcome aboard. New engine, rings probably still seating, excess blow by. What are you running for crankcase evacuation? Also are you using the oil slinger on the crankshaft, and if so is it installed correctly? If it's installed backwards that would give you issues with seating the damper.
 
I dont have an Evac system yet. Im just running breathers on my valve covers. Im not running and oil slinger. The motor has about three hours of run time on it. How long should I expect before rings are fully seated?
 
cody72dart said:
I had a hard time pressing on the ATI Super Damper and it appears that that is where the oil leak is coming from. Would not having the balancer pressed on all the way cause a leak? I used an ARP harmonic balancer bolt. They have a couple different lengths, I bought the long one and still could only get a few threads in with the washer they provided. The head of the bolt seamed big enough in diameter so I used blue loctite and left the washer off. Could oil be getting out from there?
I'm lost here guys. Has anyone ran accross this before?
Click to expand...

If figured I would quote just that part so you don't get responses that don't do you any good.

Of course it can leak from around balancer if it isn't on all the way, AND since it isn't seated against the shoulder on the crank AND you don't have the washer on it AND don't currently have any PCV AND the fact that the factory uses sealer or a seal washer between the balancer and bolt, AND there is no slinger I'm not the least bit surprised it blows oil especially when you get on it.

You need to get that thing on there all the way.
Betcha oil is coming right out between the balancer and crankshaft, and on top of that the balancer is what holds the bottom timing chain sprocket solid to the crank, and could very well shear the key off and trash that valve train.
 
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The rings seating will depend on ring type and the finish hone on the cylinders. I can't really help with the damper being hard to install as I'm not familiar with the ATI. I have read in the past where some dampers needed to be honed to get a good fit on the crank, but that's been years ago. Hopefully someone can add information here. If you have doubt about it being seated I personally wouldn't run it until I knew for sure it's correct. The crankcase venting would be something I'd also get sorted out. On the 440 in my Demon I'm running a close to factory PCV and breather system. Breather on one side with hose going to air cleaner, pcv on other plumbed into base of carburetor. There are others here on the sight that are more knowledgeable and hopefully give input. Be patient.
 
It could also be at the oil filter flange on the block. I only use Indian head sealant on that gasket.
 
Just out of curiosity.. if the damper was not seated all the way can you see a noticeable amount of belt misalignment seeings how the crank pulley bolts to the damper.
 
Only a few threads on the balancer bolt? That's not right. Are you sure you have the balancer on all the way? I highly doubt it.
 
FWIW..... from the flat area on the timing cover just above the oil pan (either side) it measures 2.5" from that surface to the back of my ATI dampner on my stock block 360.
 
Crankcase pressure test.
Hook up a regulated pressure source adjusted to 4psi and pump it in through the dipstick. Plug the valve covers. Get a windex type bottle filled with water and enough dishsoap to blow bubbles.Turn on the air and a hunting we will go, a hunting we will go, hi,ho,the daireeoh, a hunting you must go.
No more than 4psi!

Sucking the balancer on with a bolt is so wrong. There is a real good chance to pull the threads out of the crank nose. You need the proper tool for this.Beg, borrow, steal or buy,one.

If you don't have a PCV, you really should install one. Make sure your breathers allow air into the crankcase as well as out.
Re-read post #4. TB nailed it !
And do not start the car until the balancer is known to be secure. That little key on the crank may not drive the cam long with performance valve springs.
 
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iw378 said:
Just out of curiosity.. if the damper was not seated all the way can you see a noticeable amount of belt misalignment seeings how the crank pulley bolts to the damper.
Click to expand...
I was thinking the same ,on the pulleys not being lined up. definitely put a pvc set up on it !!
 
Any chance the rear main seal was damaged during assembly or even put in backwards? That caused the oil on the pass side header smoke in my car.
 
TrailBeast said:
If figured I would quote just that part so you don't get responses that don't do you any good.

Of course it can leak from around balancer if it isn't on all the way, AND since it isn't seated against the shoulder on the crank AND you don't have the washer on it AND don't currently have any PCV AND the fact that the factory uses sealer or a seal washer between the balancer and bolt, AND there is no slinger I'm not the least bit surprised it blows oil especially when you get on it.

You need to get that thing on there all the way.
Betcha oil is coming right out between the balancer and crankshaft, and on top of that the balancer is what holds the bottom timing chain sprocket solid to the crank, and could very well shear the key off and trash that valve train.
Click to expand...


Thanks TB, sounds like I have some work ahead of me. I'm going to post some pictures when I get home today of the distance in between my balancer and my timing chain cover. Mayber that can help determine how far my balancer is pressed on. As far as the oil slinger, I've heard many mixes opinions on them. Is this a necessary part?
Are any of you running an ARP balancer bolt with an ATI damper? I will definitely be putting a PCV system on it aswell as this seems to be prettt consistent
 
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SSG_Karg said:
Any chance the rear main seal was damaged during assembly or even put in backwards? That caused the oil on the pass side header smoke in my car.
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I'm confident i got the rear main seal installed properly. Its really only leaking in the front of the engine.
 
mopar65 said:
how did you install the Balancer? with a installer tool or just try and use the crank bolt to install it? when i put the aftermarket brand dampener on my 440 i had to use a installer.
it made it so much easier to install. you can buy them or Rent one form the parts store. here is one that autozone has.

http://www.autozone.com/loan-a-tool...harmonic-balancer-pulley-installer/787830_0_0
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I installed the balancer with a comp cams balancer install tool. It was very tight to install. I suspected i should have maybe had it honed to make it easier to install...
 
iw378 said:
Just out of curiosity.. if the damper was not seated all the way can you see a noticeable amount of belt misalignment seeings how the crank pulley bolts to the damper.
Click to expand...

I am running a Moroso aluminum underdrive crank pulley. It is advertised that it may have to be machined to achieve proper pulley alignment, which I had to do. So unfortunately, I dont have a factory crank pulley to compare to.
 
cody72dart said:
Thanks TB, sounds like I have some work ahead of me. I'm going to post some pictures when I get home today of the distance in between my balancer and my timing chain cover. Mayber that can help determine how far my balancer is pressed on. As far as the oil slinger, I've heard many mixes opinions on them. Is this a necessary part?
Are any of you running an ARP balancer bolt with an ATI damper? I will definitely be putting a PCV system on it aswell as this seems to be prettt consistent
Click to expand...

The slinger isn't really a big deal, but the problem is that you have 4-5 things that could add up to that leak.
1. Higher pressures in the crankcase from no PCV (forced evacuation via a PCV is always best because it actually causes a vacuum inside the motor keeping seeps to a minimum)
2. Damper may not be all the way back against it's shoulder where it bottoms out on the cam gear, and also casing the cam gear to not be seated to the crank. (another place for more oil to get through)
3. No slinger to keep extra oil away from the seal.
4. Probably no sealer between the balancer and the crank, and no seal washer under the bolt.

Pretty much any ONE of the above can allow a leak at the damper, so if you have 4 reasons the leak doesn't surprise me one bit.

The cam gear, damper and crank are normally pressed tight together limiting oil seepage between them.
They do still seep between the crank snout and damper (usually comes down through the damper keyway) and this is why they use sealer between the two pieces and especially at the keyway.
 
I am using my phone so I could only get it to copy only have the info. So I would recommend you call ATI about your balancer not going all the way on. But here is what if I I could get to copy.
On all other cranks, the crank must be checked with micrometers and the hub with a dial bore gauge to verify t. Most OEM cranks are held to +/- .0002" while most aftermarket cranks are held to +/- .0005." Hub bores are tight to accommodate aftermarket cranks and most hubs will require honing. ATI can perform this service for $40.
 
cody72dart said:
I installed the balancer with a comp cams balancer install tool. It was very tight to install. I suspected i should have maybe had it honed to make it easier to install...
Click to expand...

Every aftermarket damper I've used has had to be honed. You need to mic the crank snout and measure the id of the damper to see how much press fit you have. If it needs to be honed have a machine shop hone it.

I don't remember the od of the crank but here is what ATI recommends.

Crankshaft OD, Interference

1.0000" - 1.2500"-------------.0009" to .0012",

1.2510" - 1.3750"-------------.0008" to .0011",

1.3750" - 1.6000"-------------.0007" to .0009"

1.6010" - 2.0000"-------------.0006" to .0008"

2.0010" - 2.5000"-------------.0005" to .0007"
 
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Thanks for posting that. That's the other part of the info I was trying to add but for some reason my phone wouldn't copy that part.
 
Thanks for all the info everyone! Here are some pics of my balancer in relation to timing cover. Im pretty confident its not seated all the way.
My carb is a 950 XP and there is no where to hook up a PCV system. Im running an Edelbrock supper victor intake which also has no vaccum ports. Is there another option for crankcase ventilation? I looked into vacuum pumps but I'm having a hard time finding any kind of mounting brankets.
As far as the sealer around the crank and balancer, what type of sealer should I use?
 
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