New old '66 Barracuda

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jimbo said:
No worries, get ready for a sorted love affair. I did with a "65 that I got in Tacoma several years ago. I got the car in time for my daughter to drive it for her senior year of high school. After that it was MINE! When I was done it had a new .020 340, a new 904 with a 3500 stall converter, a manual vale body, and a shift kit. A body SBP 8.75 with 3.23 suregrip, Hurst rachet shifter, and ralleys. Then I sold it with all the goodies. I should have kept the goodies.So in other words DONT SELL IT. Brett used to get all flustered when I would park it next to him at the local show.
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That sounds like a nice set up. Do you have any pics?

I think Brett appreciated the originality of the car. I do, too. But everything needs to be gone through to some extent... which certainly allows opportunities to make it better/faster/louder, etc. Even just changing the oil, oil filter, and fuel filters was an improvement!! Carburetor is on the way - Edelbrock 1406 (National Carburetor via fleabay) , then I will put tires on it - I can see the belting through the cracks in the rubber!! And it came with 205's on the passenger and 195's on the driver sides...
I know there are a few threads on the subject, but thought to ask here anyway - what sizes can I get away with on the '72 rallyes? 225's in the rear? 205's front? I'm okay with the 14" wheels for now.
 
On my wagon, I run 215 and 205/75/14's. I like the look on my car...a little more original looking. Put a swaybar and good shocks on your Barracuda, you won't believe how it drives. I like the idea of a 20:1 manual steering box too. Your daughter won't know the difference if that's what she learns on. My wife's Honda has manual steering and she does great.
 

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After a week out of the country and a week playing catch up at work I finally put together all the parts needed for a manifold / carb swap. The PO supplied an Edelbrock Performer manifold with the car and Monday I received a rebuilt Edelbrock 1406 from National Carburetor (via slezebay). I figured I would at the very least try and make the car a bit more drivable. After pulling all the fasteners and removing the ancillaries I freed up the intake manifold and saw... black sludge. Everywhere. Baked on. :pukeleft: It doesn't even look like oil is making it up to the heads. Did I say everywhere? Covering everything...
Maybe a good reason to move forward on a 340 or 360...
Any input on dealing with a sludge monster?
 
Sure, rebuild it or replace it! If it's that bad, it won't be long before it needs it anyway.
 
I had a crack in the floor just like that. I ended up installing sub-frame connectors, for extra structure.
I don't have kids, not trying to offend, but I don't know if I'd start one out in an antique car. It might not be fair to either of them. At least upgrade to a dual master cylinder and shoulder belts, and maybe front disc brakes.
 
WAY COOL! another gold 66, with rally's even!
I have 215/70-14's on it now and they are fine
I plan to change to 205/70-14 sometime
same size in all four corners so you can rotate them
they last a lot longer that way
 

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Very nice find. I bought a 66 last spring to add to my collection. My floor was cracked like that too. I am running P225/60r14 and 235/60514 BFG radial T/As on mine. I bought some 3 point seatbelts from Westco and added neon srt4 viper style seats to it. Wife won't ride unless its got good seatbelts.
 
After a few weeks in the garage I finally got to installing the new intake and Edelbrock carb. Man, I spent a stupid amount of time fiddlefucking around with the throttle and kickdown linkage thinking there must be some black art/phases of the moon/sacrificing virgins aspect to getting it all together - I went out and bought all the different Edelbrock Chrysler linkage parts and tried to homebrew some concoction together, which at first was way messed up due to mixing up what I thought to be the throttle with the K/D... but finally settled on using the original K/D arm with socket end and one the the Ehrenberg throttle brackets from fleabay. 9BTW, initially I was not too impressed with the item shown in the pics for the buy it now price - seemed a lot of $$ for some flimsy metal pieces. When it arrived I was thrilled to find some stout pieces, so on they went.) After throwing aside all the BS parts I ended up drilling out on e of the mount holes on the throttle arm and used the stock ball fitting - for the K/D linkage - that also has the pin on the end to attach the throttle cable.
In the picture it looks like there is some interference with the cable and arm, but I looked at it a few times and seems okay. Once the 360 goes it should be other issues...
I also tried one of the engine gunk treatments - I mentioned in a previous post the top end was caked with crud, in a real bad way. I wasn't sure if the top end was getting oil!! After running it and doing an oil / filter change the runability improved, though the top end still looked nearly dry. How much lube can I expect to see in the heads when I pull the valve covers? I did halve the filter - looked nasty. Like something that came out of a coffee maker. Next I plan on pulling the pan and cleaning the pick up...
 

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I have pulled valve covers at ~100K mi on Slant Six, 273, and 383 engines. Mine always look fairly clean. Yours look like what I have seen in junkyard engines. I suspect one has to skip oil change or drive hard and hot to get sludge like that. Still, if you have good compression, the engine is fine. Perhaps you can clean w/ kerosine with the pan off, then run chemicals thru the water to clean the passages. I am guessing you have a 318 since the alum maninfold went on easy ('66 273's have different angle holes).
 
BillGrissom said:
I have pulled valve covers at ~100K mi on Slant Six, 273, and 383 engines. Mine always look fairly clean. Yours look like what I have seen in junkyard engines. I suspect one has to skip oil change or drive hard and hot to get sludge like that. Still, if you have good compression, the engine is fine. Perhaps you can clean w/ kerosine with the pan off, then run chemicals thru the water to clean the passages. I am guessing you have a 318 since the alum maninfold went on easy ('66 273's have different angle holes).
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Hello Bill,
My understanding it was pre '65 that had the different bolt angle. And my guess is that MANY oil changes were skipped :disgust:...
I will make some time to do a compression check this weekend - funny, I still haven't gotten around to that... and a hundred other things.
 
eholster,

I have two 1965 273 V-8 engines and both have the "more vertical" tapped holes for the intake manifold (7/16 coarse thread I recall). I measured the holes as ~16 deg off vertical. Later engines changed to the ~45 deg off vertical holes, until Magnum engines which have vertical holes. I recall they also went to a bigger bolt (1/2" coarse?). I think it was only '64 & '65 LA engines that had the 16 deg holes, but many posts about that.

If your holes are ~45 deg off vertical (perpendicular to intake surface), you probably have later heads, though I have heard of people drilling and tapping new holes. I mounted a later intake alum manifold on my heads by countersinking the manifold holes to fit a flat-head screw, as others have.
 
64 and 65 heads are at a different angle. The easiest way is the intake bolts are 1/2 inch socket, 5/16-18 bolts. 66 up use 9/16 socket and are 3/8-16 bolts.
 
Careful what you run thru the engine to clean it. I used that motor flush stuff once. It knocked all the crud loose that was keeping everything sealed up. Ended up getting all sorts of oil leaks later on. Plus you may end up getting extra crud in the bearings.
 
So far I have had the car out a few times in the neighborhood - down to the car wash, a beer run, etc. The lower radiator hose was leaking so I replaced that on Saturday, then took it for a spin - I've noticed the temp goes up real quick, so I went home. Strange, when I bought the car and drove it home about 20 miles the temp never got very high (20 degrees cooler outside then). Now, keep in mind, this was also with the original 2 barrel. Since replacing with the 4 barrel Edelbrock it warms up pretty quick but I do notice it getting pretty darn hot... What is normal??
Yes, I have had a couple leaks show up that I didn't have before, but it actually leaks less now than when I got it! But, I do have a concern on the lubrication - I mentioned it the valve train and valley looked pretty dry when I opened it up, so I'm wondering if there could be enough restriction somewhere in the oiling lines to prevent flow to the heads? Would this influence the overheating? Oil pressure is good... Last oil flush was pretty nasty and now it is still nice and clean.

On another note - in a different thread I had posed the question of 340 vs. 360 with lots of input. I was thrilled to find a Magnum 360 for sale locally, listed as complete from a running vehicle - picked it up on Saturday afternoon and tore into it that evening only to find... missing a piston and a crack between the valves on the same cylinder. ARRGGGHHH:angry7: I was tempted to call the seller at 10:30 p.m. when I discovered this but figured that wouldn't be conducive to getting my money back. Fortunately, in the morning when I explained to him what I found he told me to bring the motor back for a refund. Upstanding guy - thanks M. in Lynnwood. So, the search is on again...
Since I didn't get any response when I posted this in my 340 vs 360 post, I thought I'd try it here. This is in regard to building a 408 stroker -

Thanks all, for your replies. Didn't mean to leave the thread hanging with all the input and no response... Busy with the day job, night job (15 y.o. daughter - lot's of overtime!) and had a work related trip to Central America...
But - I did manage to find a 360 Magnum local for a fair price. I went through and re-read the posts here and now have a bit to consider - the motor is a completer runner, with almost all ancillaries included. This means if I want to I can retain the fuel injection. I also ordered a couple of the "How to..." books - Larry Shepard's How to Hot Rod SB Mopar Motors and Jim Szilagyi's How to Build Big Inch Mopar SB, the latter of which is very informative. In particular I found his recipes on 6 different engine packages interesting. Anyone here have any experience with his 'recipes'? I am specifically interested in the Magnum Muscle Car 408 build, as the motor I'm buying is the basic core for what is laid out. For those who haven't seen the breakdown, here it is -

4.030 bore / 4.000 stroke
block - Magnum 5.9l
Crank - Forged Mopar #P5007254 - internally balanced
Damper - stock 318 w/ neutral balance
Rods - Eagle SIR
Pistons/Rings - Diamond #51405, Speed pro moly
Oil pan and pump - Moroso deep sump # 20730, p/u #24700, Mopar #P4286589
Cam - Hyd roller cam - Mopar #P4876348 230/234 dur. @ .050, .0501/.513 lift, 108 deg. centerline
Tappets - Hyd. roller - included w/ cam
Pushrods - Stock Magnum
Rocker Arms - Stock Magnum
Cylinder Heads - Mopar Magnum R/T - Big Valve #P5007141 w/ porting done
Intake - Mopar M1 Single PLane #P5007380
Carb - Holley 750 cfm
Ignition - Mopar #P3690426
Ign. timing - 35 deg.


The claim is that it will make 505HP @ 5900 and 525 ft-lb @ 3800. Seems impressive... Realistic??

I'm going to price out parts to stroke it. I already have a pretty good idea of the bill at the machine shop. Then there's the whole transmission component to determine...

Another day.

Any input??

Thanks guys.
 
What type of headers are you planning on using for a stroker? gotta have good flow for lots of horsepower .
 
It's been a long time since I've updated this - mostly due to no time and energy. Oh, and not much has changed with the car either... until now!

Last month I went down to Tacoma and picked up a freshly rebuilt 273 with hydraulic conversion and a rebuilt 904 to go with it. I wasn't making much progress on a 408 build and realized for the cost of the rotating assembly alone I could get the motor and transmission. This will essentially make the Barracuda a daily driver!! Exciting, but then I decided with the engine out it would be a good time to freshen up the engine bay... And then I realized I wanted the car a different color... And then... where do I start???

I'm struggling a little in a couple areas - first with what the best approach is - on one hand there is the approach of stripping off the old paint and starting fresh with primer / base / clear, and on the other is cleaning / degreasing / sanding / primer / base / clear. Keep in mind I'm just at the engine bay right now!! And the second struggle is what color to paint it?? Initially I was hot to go all black - sinister looking thing it could be. Then I was thinking I could have some fun with a different color but most of the stock 60's colors were not very inspired. The rallye green or orange could be fun, but a bit loud. While I'm not a huge fan of newer cars in general I was thinking the satin finishes I have seen on some of the modded exotics could be interesting over the green or orange. Anyone have any experiences with these? Oh, and in no way am I attempting to put a 66 Barracuda on a shelf anywhere near an exotic... just an interesting option on the finish.
 
It has been a long time! You probably got the 273 from my friend Bob. Look forward to seeing the progress.
 
Commando66 said:
It has been a long time! You probably got the 273 from my friend Bob. Look forward to seeing the progress.
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Hello Mike! Yes, indeed a while...
The motor and trans did indeed come from Bob - he's an upholstery guy, right? It looked like a decent rebuild on the motor and as close to plug and play as I'm going to get.
And on another note, I may give you a call this weekend - I have a couple work related projects that will require some detailed CNC machining. I'm not looking for any 'deals', but do recall a relative of yours runs a shop down the street from me. A direct contact is always nice. Hope things are well on your front.
 
Before you get into tearing the engine apart, try draining about 1/2 the oil out and topping the crankcase back up with ordinary diesel fuel. Start the motor and let it idle 600 to 800 RPM, but DON"T rev it. After it reaches temperature, let it idle 20-30 minutes more, taking care it doesn't overheat. Drain the crankcase out completely and do a normal oil/filter change.
That original to the car 273 might have more life in it than you know.

"Back in the day" (early 70s), I rebuilt the original 347 in my '57 Safari (Pontiac for those that might not know) with 123,000 miles on the clock. Pulling it apart I found sludge 3/8" to 1/2" thick covering every internal surface that would normally be coated with a film of oil. Strangely enough, after hot tanking and measuring everything carefully, the engine needed only standard sized replacement parts except for the pistons needed to go with a .030 overbore.

Keeping the booster and going to the '73 and later disc brake setup with a split master cylinder would definitely improve the braking ability and make it safer for the daughter as long as you run an adjustable proportioning valve and properly set it up, but never owning an early A body I don't know how complicated it is to get the later bits onto the earlier body.

I'm so sick and tired of all the "new" paint colours and who ever came up with the idea that flat, oops, I mean "suuuuwaaaade" paint is something desirable ought to be shot on sight. I'm old enough to know that "flat black" paint was really dark gray primer and the first step on the long road to being able to have a nice, shiny, finished paint job.

If you "just gotta" change the paint colour from the factory original, dead straight bodywork under the smoothest, slickest, mile deep black paint ALWAYS wows 'em. Of course, at that point you might as well go the whole nine yards and redo the interior completely in smooth white or red glove leather.
 
twofosho said:
Before you get into tearing the engine apart, try draining about 1/2 the oil out and topping the crankcase back up with ordinary diesel fuel. ...

Keeping the booster and going to the '73 and later disc brake setup ... I don't know how complicated it is to get the later bits onto the earlier body.
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Good idea, and better than the old "motor flush" cans that were straight kerosine. But before running the engine, I would remove the valve covers and brush everything you can reach with gasoline or kerosine (or a mixture). It will all run down the pan to drain the sludge. Then fill the crankcase with ~8 qt of kerosine and let it sit as long as you can before draining. That should de-sludge most surfaces. Then try the "run it hot" suggestion, but not too long. Worst case, you might mess up the oil pan gasket, but you might need to remove the pan anyway to check things.

The 73+ booster will fit the early A's. I put 74 brackets on my 65, but used a booster/MC from a 90's Breeze. It barely clears my Weiand valve covers by 1/4", so may switch to a smaller after-market booster I got since. I didn't like the heavy 74 cast-iron MC. I suspect one could install a later alum MC on a 4-hole booster by drilling 2 holes in the booster (taken apart) and installing sealed studs, rather than the expensive adapter plate.
 
I'd suggest ditching the single pot master cyllinder though ... I have found that the only time I wish I had power steering is when I'm parking .
 
Do NOT flush out that engine, because doing so dislodges the "crap" buildup into the motor. On my sister in laws 64 barracuda, I removed the 318 engine and cleaned all the parts while on a engine stand. Not as much work as it sounds like becaue the engine comes out very easy. THE only mistake made was I was unable to talk my brother into reboring the engine, due to mileage on car. It made it a smoker, but the oil stayed clean for a long time after oil changes. This was done about 1984. Today I have the car here to install a rebuilt 340 and other work.
 
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