New rallye dash replacement gauges/tachs (some insider news from the supplier)

[67fish383S]

So, here's my story...I am in the process of doing my second gauge cluster overhaul/upgrade using parts from AMS Obsolete (a.k.a Charger Specialties, AMS purchased CS back in 2020). This time I am working on my '71 Duster 340 4-speed. The first time around was in my '67 Barracuda Fastback Formula S 383 4-speed and I actually documented that project here if you're curious. These products are also sold through Classic Industries and perhaps other aftermarket classic car suppliers, but I have pretty much always bought them directly from AMS. These are really the only available modern made, but factory-looking replacement alternatives to the originals, which are generally hard to find and of questionable original design, accuracy, and longevity (debatably anyway).

It did not help matters that I bought everything I needed for this project over a year ago, and then let them sit in the boxes all this time while I kicked the can down the road as far as finding the time and motivation to actually start the project. Anyway, a couple of weeks back I finally got off my can and pulled the dash. The rat's nest of previous owner wiring sins I found in there is a story for another time. Back on topic, I ran into a fitment issue with the new ammeter and temp gauge that was enough of a problem that I needed to pause the project and contact the manufacturer. The ammeter was contacting the cluster housing preventing the needle from free movement and the temp gauge terminal posts would not even fit through the holes in the (new) printed circuit boards. I did not have these same issues when I did the Barracuda, although I did note some slight wonkiness in how those gauges fit into the cluster housing. So I emailed the supplier my description of the problems including pictures, and the tech who hand builds these gauges called me almost immediately and offered to let me return them for assessment and repair or replacement, even though the statutory time for such a return had long past. Pretty cool. So I packed them up and UPS'd them to him (wow shipping prices are outrageous) and waited patiently to hear when I'd get the Duster back on the road. Funny how I always seem to let the winter downtimes unproductively slip by and then have my cars torn apart during the driving season. There I go digressing again...

So today I started to get a little curious about when I'd see my gauges again, so I emailed again, and AGAIN got an extremely prompt follow up call (actually two follow up calls). Now we are getting to the point of what I am posting about. During the status update from the tech, I learned several very interesting things I thought I would share:

1. The more the tech digs into the issue, the more he is becoming convinced that this has been a problem that has existed all along to varying degrees and that it may be an original design flaw/build process issue that he inherited from Charger Specialties. He mentioned he is a little shocked that this is the first time someone has brought these fitment issues to his attention. Anyway, he intends to resolve my immediate issue as best he can for now, but more importantly than that, he has committed to improving the design and build process to eliminate the issues going forward and drastically improve how these gauges fit in the factory housings. So my heads up is this - if you are considering spending the $400 for a set of these gauges (which I highly recommend over trying to restore originals) - you are probably going to want to hold off a while. These improvements might even involve new stamped die faces as opposed to the existing decal'd faces.

2. He also told me about similar planned improvements to the A body rallye tachometers that no one can seem to get right now anyway. This also involves a new stamped die dial face and the graphic matching the factory originals (they are now in a font that is "slightly off" and read 0-8000 rpm, where an original would have read 0-6000).

3. He also clued me in on something I did not know and have often wondered about (why there are two different dial face options for the tach).

This one goes with the 150MPH speedo:

The one pictured at the beginning of this post went with the 120MPH speedo. Side note: I have one of those "full face" tachs that is gently used that I might consider parting with. PM me if interested. I hear they are literally unobtainium right now.

Sorry about blathering on. I tend to do that. I hope someone found some value in the info I posted.

Cheers

 

[4spdragtop]

I always find value in your posts. Good stuff! Glad they seem to be willing to not only fix your purchases, but fix the future ones as well.
As far as the factory tach differences, I'm not so sure he is correct? Sweep patterns I believe are the only differences? And maybe a slight font change. The way those repop tachs are done are no comparison to oem ones. Not nitpicking, just saying.
Thanks for posting, good luck with Duster.

 

[cudamark]

I always thought it was just the '67 tach face that was different from the '68-up version along with the angle of the numbers on the speedo.

 

[4spdragtop]

70(I think) had numbers in red in redline area also.

I always thought it was just the '67 tach face that was different from the '68-up version along with the angle of the numbers on the speedo.

 

[67fish383S]

I always thought it was just the '67 tach face that was different from the '68-up version along with the angle of the numbers on the speedo.

I can’t speak to the accuracy of what the tech was saying about the tach faces. I thought the 0-6k thing didn’t sound right. In any event, if they are going to go to the trouble of improving them, hopefully they’ll do the due diligence to know what is accurate historically.

 

[4spdragtop]

IMO the tech is wrong with tachs being different 120 speedo vs 150 speedo.

 

[1WildRT]

but factory-looking replacement alternatives to the originals, which are generally hard to find and of questionable original design, accuracy, and longevity (debatably anyway).

Throwing stones at OE parts while discussing flaws in aftermarket parts..... Amazing....

 

[CFD244]

70(I think) had numbers in red in redline area also.

I do believe that '71 has the red line. I have a '70 in my dash and it's all black (which I like more than the red anyhow)

 

[4spdragtop]

Lol I knew either 70 or 71, every time it's a 50/50 I'm wrong lol.

I do believe that '71 has the red line. I have a '70 in my dash and it's all black (which I like more than the red anyhow)

 

[340sFastback]

Throwing stones at OE parts while discussing flaws in aftermarket parts..... Amazing....

I didn't take it as throwing stones at original parts. More like they are decades old, unknown history, reliability can be in question due to age, possible abuse/neglect ect. And issues with the new parts obvious they don't fit and are unusable.

 

[CFD244]

Lol I knew either 70 or 71, every time it's a 50/50 I'm wrong lol.

That's how we decide what to do at home. I ask my wife what she thinks, and then we do the opposite

 

[1WildRT]

I didn't take it as throwing stones at original parts. More like they are decades old, unknown history, reliability can be in question due to age, possible abuse/neglect ect. And issues with the new parts obvious they don't fit and are unusable.

Sorry I don't agree.... This " and of questionable original design" doesn't sound like he's saying they are decades old, unknown history, reliability can be in question due to age, possible abuse/neglect ect

 

[340sFastback]

Sorry I don't agree.... This " and of questionable original design" doesn't sound like he's saying they are decades old, unknown history, reliability can be in question due to age, possible abuse/neglect ect

My car has all original gauges and original tach they all still work correctly. So looks like original design was pretty good to me.

 

[1WildRT]

My car has all original gauges and original tach they all still work correctly. So looks like original design was pretty good to me.

Exactly... And I know of plenty of other examples... It's when you bring aftermarket parts into the mix that thing don't work.... I'll agree age, possible abuse/neglect can be a factor... But the original design was sound...

 

[67fish383S]

To @1WildRT @340sFastback and any others who seem to be getting stuck on what some might consider to be my "throwing stones" at the original gauge design and emphatically purporting the aftermarket replacements to be vastly superior (none of which is what I said)...

1. I qualified my statement about the original electrical design as "debatably questionable". The Chrysler engineers did what they needed to do at the time to deal with the conversion from 6V to 12V and not reinvent the wheel. I get that. But I hope you all realize we are talking about 50-60 year old tech and that there have been a few improvements to the technology and design since, right?

2. It would be difficult in said debate to get around the simple fact that the points-style voltage regulator that is built into the fuel gauge and that also supplies a reduced voltage to the oil and temp gauges was/is a time bomb waiting to go off that in most cases ends up smoking all three gauges when it fails. Yes, many of them have survived the intervening 50-60 years, but there are plenty of examples of those that did not, and the failure has nothing to do with abuse or neglect. This is an issue that has thread upon thread in this forum discussing how to bypass that archaic regulator with a discreet solid-state equivalent that will feed the gauges a stable and reliable voltage without fear of destroying all of them at some point. The fix involves carefully opening the original fuel gauge and disabling the original regulator, hopefully without damaging the gauge. These replacement gauges have dealt with all of that.

3. Given that A bodies are pretty much treated like the red headed step children of Mother Mopar when it comes to the availability of aftermarket replacement parts for damaged or worn out original parts, one would think that the only supplier of some gauge options that look like the originals but incorporate some modern remedies to those olden day tech pitfalls might be welcomed rather than assailed.

4. The issue I may have helped uncover with the aftermarket gauges is a mechanical design issue (apples and oranges) that might sometimes cause a fitment problem that the manufacturer was not even aware of because they purchased the design and build process from the original designer and no one before me had complained. That must mean that everyone else who has bought them was reasonably happy with the purchase. In my experience, these replacement gauges work electrically as well or better than the originals in terms of accuracy and durability. This manufacturer has spent a great deal of time assessing the fitment issue and looking for ways to not only resolve my immediate issue (with gauges I bought a year ago and let sit in the boxes), but also to try to improve their product going forward for future purchasers.

I'm not sure how any of ^that^ is me criticizing the manufacturer of the cars we all love and selling out to the aftermarket. If the aftermarket for the reproduction of original parts that are no longer available didn't exist, so would not a good many of our cars.

 

[340sFastback]

To @1WildRT @340sFastback and any others who seem to be getting stuck on what some might consider to be my "throwing stones" at the original gauge design and emphatically purporting the aftermarket replacements to be vastly superior (none of which is what I said)...

1. I qualified my statement about the original electrical design as "debatably questionable". The Chrysler engineers did what they needed to do at the time to deal with the conversion from 6V to 12V and not reinvent the wheel. I get that. But I hope you all realize we are talking about 50-60 year old tech and that there have been a few improvements to the technology and design since, right?

2. It would be difficult in said debate to get around the simple fact that the points-style voltage regulator that is built into the fuel gauge and that also supplies a reduced voltage to the oil and temp gauges was/is a time bomb waiting to go off that in most cases ends up smoking all three gauges when it fails. Yes, many of them have survived the intervening 50-60 years, but there are plenty of examples of those that did not, and the failure has nothing to do with abuse or neglect. This is an issue that has thread upon thread in this forum discussing how to bypass that archaic regulator with a discreet solid-state equivalent that will feed the gauges a stable and reliable voltage without fear of destroying all of them at some point. The fix involves carefully opening the original fuel gauge and disabling the original regulator, hopefully without damaging the gauge. These replacement gauges have dealt with all of that.

3. Given that A bodies are pretty much treated like the red headed step children of Mother Mopar when it comes to the availability of aftermarket replacement parts for damaged or worn out original parts, one would think that the only supplier of some gauge options that look like the originals but incorporate some modern remedies to those olden day tech pitfalls might be welcomed rather than assailed.

4. The issue I may have helped uncover with the aftermarket gauges is a mechanical design issue (apples and oranges) that might sometimes cause a fitment problem that the manufacturer was not even aware of because they purchased the design and build process from the original designer and no one before me had complained. That must mean that everyone else who has bought them was reasonably happy with the purchase. In my experience, these replacement gauges work electrically as well or better than the originals in terms of accuracy and durability. This manufacturer has spent a great deal of time assessing the fitment issue and looking for ways to not only resolve my immediate issue (with gauges I bought a year ago and let sit in the boxes), but also to try to improve their product going forward for future purchasers.

I'm not sure how any of ^that^ is me criticizing the manufacturer of the cars we all love and selling out to the aftermarket. If the aftermarket for the reproduction of original parts that are no longer available didn't exist, so would not a good many of our cars.

I don''t have ANY issue with ANYTHING you posted at ALL. I hope you can report back later vendor fixed the parts and these badly needed parts become available. Cause right now if someone has broken gauges thats a huge problem

 

[67fish383S]

I don''t have ANY issue with ANYTHING you posted at ALL. I hope you can report back later vendor fixed the parts and these badly needed parts become available. Cause right now if someone has broken gauges thats a huge problem

Thanks 340s. I will absolutely do that.

 

[4spdragtop]

Well said, altho I have a triple gauge set, I kept a few oem spares, just in case. Sounds like the oem style are only available thru 1 supplier/mfg.

I don''t have ANY issue with ANYTHING you posted at ALL. I hope you can report back later vendor fixed the parts and these badly needed parts become available. Cause right now if someone has broken gauges thats a huge problem

 

[jeff alder]

Thanks for posting this. I am going through some clusters I have and sorting out what I want to let go. I have a 67 convertible Barracuda that someone put the white dial faces on none of which work...so it is about to come out and all the gauges replaced. This is good information. I am glad I did not order anything thanks for the advice and information. The only good parts that I have obtained that I know will work were from members here. Thanks FABO.

 

[Capecodcuda]

Thanks for this information. I’ve been waiting for a back-ordered aftermarket tachometer from Classic Industries for my ‘67 Barracuda for a few months now and they can’t provide any estimate of when they might ship it.

 

[4spdragtop]

I would be tempted to cancel it and look around. Other suppliers will have one. Classic is known for exorbitant shipping and back orders.

Thanks for this information. I’ve been waiting for a back-ordered aftermarket tachometer from Classic Industries for my ‘67 Barracuda for a few months now and they can’t provide any estimate of when they might ship it.

 

[67fish383S]

Thanks for this information. I’ve been waiting for a back-ordered aftermarket tachometer from Classic Industries for my ‘67 Barracuda for a few months now and they can’t provide any estimate of when they might ship it.

Classic Industries is just a distributor of these tachs, which are manufactured by AMS Obsolete. I would give them a call. They can tell you what the situation is as far as availability and they will always fill their own direct orders first, so I would cancel the order with Classic and order from them. And as mentioned above, I think the primary reason for the unavailability right now is that AMS is working on a redesign for improvements to the dial faces, so it may be a while before you can buy them again. Be aware that one issue with AMS, and this is even more true with the stuff that they bought from Charger Specialties, is that they don't maintain their websites very well at all, so most things show out-of-stock. You will always have better results by calling them. Good luck.

Also, as mentioned in my post and in case you don't want to wait any longer, I have a gently used one of these that I probably won't need:

Send me a PM if you want and we can discuss.

 

[Capecodcuda]

Thank you both- I will call AMS and see what they have to say.

 

[S'cuder]

AMS also operates as Herb's Parts. That website is a little better for repro stuff. But yes, as 67fish383S says, call. They're good on the phone.

Mopar Restoration and Performance A-BODY DASH-RELATED, Tachometers

www.herbsparts.com

 

[RLF Cuda]

Below is a shot of the dash I assembled using PG Classics 316-69KIT dash bezel, lenses, and a mix of original parts. My '68 Formula S FB had the standard rally dash with no tach and a 120 MPH speedometer. Over the decades I have owned this car (since '69), I modified only a few things. In about '72, I added a Stewart Warner Stage III tach inside the dash as I didn't like the tach hanging on the steering column. I flipped the blank cup around and mounted the SW tach to the inside of the cup. It then fit perfectly against the bezel and looked amazingly stock.
Over the years, I picked up several rally dashes from '67 and '68+ cars just in case I needed parts. One dash had a stock tach which I used when I restored the Cuda dash. I also used a 150 MPH speedo replacing the stock 120. The final assembled dash is shown below. To be honest, I don't remember what year the tach was from. If someone can positively identify the year, that would be great.
The PG Classics bezel looks great from the front, but it is a royal PITA to mount correctly. The channel that receives the upper support plate that the mounting screws push against does not fit into the upper lip of the bezel. I had to take a Dremel cutoff wheel (about 1/8" width) and grind on the brand new $700 pieces to get the plate to fit properly into the slot. Worrying all the time that I might cut too deep and damage this brand new piece. My restoration shop, Cars Remember When in Littleton, CO, said that this is absolutely typical of restoration parts today. Sad that they can't get the details correct.
But I guess that as long as it turns out OK, we can't complain.