new slant build cam choice help please

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MOPARHOTRODS

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wilmington,delaware
going to build another slant motor for my 66 Dart convertible
Long Rod 225 with KB 249 Pistons
ported polished head big valves
Offy intake with dual w40 strombergs
4 speed with 355 gears
can you guys please help me With some solid cam specs that would be right
for what I have listed above thank you in advance
 
Yours sounds like an ideal candidate for an RV15RDP cam, co-developed by Doug Dutra and Erson Cams a couple of Erson owners ago. The current Erson owners don't have the info and aren't interested. I sent my RV10RDP for master profiling and it's now available from Oregon Cam, but unfortunately the guy who has an RV15RDP on his shelf refuses to "risk" sending it for mastering because what if a meteorite hits the mailman and he drops the camshaft and it bursts out of its box and rolls down the hill and gets run over by a truck and sent flipping end-over-end into the air then falls into the lion cage in the zoo and the lions piss on it and rust it all to hell. Or something! Basically translates to "I have it, you can't have it, FU". Then the other guy with an RV15RDP made noise about having it mastered, but AFAIK never followed through. See here (things start heating up on page 2). Might be worth nudging him.

Avoid Comp's Slant-6 cams and whatever you do, don't give any money to the clowns at Clifford!
 
Dan I appreciate you responding I value your information yeah I sent that clown a p.m. telling him that I'll buy his RV 15 can and if I if he sells it to me I will send it to you to get it profiled I will see what he does thanks again man much appreciated
 
Yours sounds like an ideal candidate for an RV15RDP cam, co-developed by Doug Dutra and Erson Cams a couple of Erson owners ago. The current Erson owners don't have the info and aren't interested. I sent my RV10RDP for master profiling and it's now available from Oregon Cam, but unfortunately the guy who has an RV15RDP on his shelf refuses to "risk" sending it for mastering because what if a meteorite hits the mailman and he drops the camshaft and it bursts out of its box and rolls down the hill and gets run over by a truck and sent flipping end-over-end into the air then falls into the lion cage in the zoo and the lions piss on it and rust it all to hell. Or something! Basically translates to "I have it, you can't have it, FU". Then the other guy with an RV15RDP made noise about having it mastered, but AFAIK never followed through. See here (things start heating up on page 2). Might be worth nudging him.

Avoid Comp's Slant-6 cams and whatever you do, don't give any money to the clowns at Clifford!

Dan,

I am in possession of a new, still in the package, slant six cam, ground by Comp Cams. I want to try this cam because it has ten degrees more duration (220 vs 210@ .050"-lift) than the Bullet-brand cam that I am using in my turbocharged 225.

I am really ignorant when it comes to cam grinders and am curious as to what reasons you have for your aversion to cams ground by Comp Cams. I have no opinion because I have no knowledge, so, whatever you can tell me will be appreciated. I did hear, at one point, that there was a wear problem associated with Comp Cams for slant sixes with the distributor/oil pump drive gear interface. The pump/gear in my engine came from Frank Brent and was ordered as a "heavy-duty" unit. Might that matter, here? I am totally in the dark....

Thanks for any information!
 
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The distributor/oil pump drive problem is one hardware issue, another is improperly drilled rear cam journal starving the top end for oil. AFAICT these issues weren't confined to Comp's cams; there was a run of poor-quality \6 cam blanks and pretty much everyone got them, though I don't know when it started, when/if it ended, and details like that. A heavy-duty oil pump and drive gear will not save your bacon if the cam's drive worm is wrong—something's gotta give (get shredded up) and the damage won't be pretty.

Comp-specific issues in principle: lazy, braindead use of Chevrolet lobe profiles sold as "upgrades" for Mopar engines, throwing away the big advantage of the larger-diameter Mopar lifter (which allows for a steeper/faster lift and drop)

Comp-specific issues in practice: I have seen more failures of their 252° "upgrade" cam run right (let alone running well) than I have seen successes. Some people seem to make it work, but many people don't. Seems like it's difficult/impossible to find a valve lash setting that makes the engine run correctly both cold and hot without making noise. All points back to Comp's slackaѕѕеd use of cam lobe profiles incorrect/unmatched to the rest of the engine.

I have no knowledge of Comp's other \6 cams besides the 252, which is (in my view) a big enough POS to steer me far away from the rest of their stuff. Maybe they make some good \6 cams, but their continued marketing of the 252 warns me off.

I would if I could, but I'm not qualified to make a specific cam recommendation for your turbo motor. But there are enough people around here and on slantsix.org who have put together good-running turbo \6s that good guidance ought to be available.
 
The distributor/oil pump drive problem is one hardware issue, another is improperly drilled rear cam journal starving the top end for oil. AFAICT these issues weren't confined to Comp's cams; there was a run of poor-quality \6 cam blanks and pretty much everyone got them, though I don't know when it started, when/if it ended, and details like that. A heavy-duty oil pump and drive gear will not save your bacon if the cam's drive worm is wrong—something's gotta give (get shredded up) and the damage won't be pretty.

Comp-specific issues in principle: lazy, braindead use of Chevrolet lobe profiles sold as "upgrades" for Mopar engines, throwing away the big advantage of the larger-diameter Mopar lifter (which allows for a steeper/faster lift and drop)

Comp-specific issues in practice: I have seen more failures of their 252° "upgrade" cam run right (let alone running well) than I have seen successes. Some people seem to make it work, but many people don't. Seems like it's difficult/impossible to find a valve lash setting that makes the engine run correctly both cold and hot without making noise. All points back to Comp's slackaѕѕеd use of cam lobe profiles incorrect/unmatched to the rest of the engine.

I have no knowledge of Comp's other \6 cams besides the 252, which is (in my view) a big enough POS to steer me far away from the rest of their stuff. Maybe they make some good \6 cams, but their continued marketing of the 252 warns me off.

I would if I could, but I'm not qualified to make a specific cam recommendation for your turbo motor. But there are enough people around here and on slantsix.org who have put together good-running turbo \6s that good guidance ought to be available.






Well, 252 is way too much duration for my motor, so it's very unlikely that I will be falling prey to that particular piece's mayhem, but I am curious about the Comp cam I DO have, wondering whether I should chance it, not knowing anything about the rear cam journal machining (how was it wrong?) and the metalurgy(?) problem with the distributor/oil pump drive gear. I don't know what to look for. Can you fill me in?

Thanks for the other information; I really appreciate it!
 
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going to build another slant motor for my 66 Dart convertible
Long Rod 225 with KB 249 Pistons
ported polished head big valves
Offy intake with dual w40 strombergs
4 speed with 355 gears
can you guys please help me With some solid cam specs that would be right
for what I have listed above thank you in advance

Is this the one in the avatar? How much lift can the springs you have handle? Rpm range? Compression? What kind of driving will you mainly be doing, btw with this small of cid i would suggest you focus on the lowest average operating rpm range and not WOT otherwise it will be too soft for you.
 
Well, 252 is way too much duration for my motor

Doubt it. That's Comp's "one baby-step above stock" cam offering. 252° is its advertised duration. Its duration at 0.050" is 215°. But I still don't recommend it.

I am curious about the Comp cam I DO have, wondering whether I should chance it

Well, it is a bird in the hand. But it looks like this one, (264° advertised duration). I don't think it's what I'd want to use on a turbo motor—its lobe separation looks kinda close to me; you don't wanna be blowing your boost through the cylinder and out the exhaust pipe while both valves are open. But that's just general principle; I've not built a turbo slant motor, so I'm not the right guy to make a specific cam recommendation for one.

not knowing anything about the rear cam journal machining (how was it wrong?)

Oil passages not drilled to line up with oil-in and oil-out holes in the rearmost cam bearing. See here (and while you're at it, see here)

and the metalurgy(?) problem with the distributor/oil pump drive gear. I don't know what to look for.

It's not necessarily something that can be seen by just picking up a cam and eyeballing the worm gear. Sometimes (as described in the last post of this thread) but sometimes not. Best insurance seems to be avoiding the faulty-cam-blank gamble altogether, and instead sending a known-good original cam to Oregon Cam (or another camshaft house) for regrind to your specs or theirs of your choosing
 
Yours sounds like an ideal candidate for an RV15RDP cam, co-developed by Doug Dutra and Erson Cams a couple of Erson owners ago. The current Erson owners don't have the info and aren't interested. I sent my RV10RDP for master profiling and it's now available from Oregon Cam, but unfortunately the guy who has an RV15RDP on his shelf refuses to "risk" sending it for mastering because what if a meteorite hits the mailman and he drops the camshaft and it bursts out of its box and rolls down the hill and gets run over by a truck and sent flipping end-over-end into the air then falls into the lion cage in the zoo and the lions piss on it and rust it all to hell. Or something! Basically translates to "I have it, you can't have it, FU". Then the other guy with an RV15RDP made noise about having it mastered, but AFAIK never followed through. See here (things start heating up on page 2). Might be worth nudging him.

Avoid Comp's Slant-6 cams and whatever you do, don't give any money to the clowns at Clifford!
It's a thing called "TRUST", something that I've been burned on too many times in my life, as well as you being to selfish to understand. YET, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT AND GO OUT TO BAD MOUTH AND SLANDER ME! I really don't appreciate that. Can you guarantee me that it won't get damaged, lost, stolen, or whatever? Thought so! Until you can, it's best you eat your own words and keep your arrogant self centered opinion of others to yourself!
 
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It's a thing called "TRUST", something that I've been burned on too many times in my life, as well as you being to selfish to understand. YET, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT AND GO OUT TO BAD MOUTH AND SLANDER ME! I really don't appreciate that. Can you guarantee me that it won't get damaged, lost, stolen, or whatever? Thought so! Until you can, it's best you eat your own words and keep your arrogant self centered opinion of others to yourself!
myself and others would benefit from a profile of this camI sent you a message please respond thank you
 

That word has a specific definition. It means a false, defamatory spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation. Get that: the statement has to be false, and it has to be spoken. There's another word when it's printed, that word is libel, but again, the statement has to be false and defamatory.

I didn't slander you, and nope, there's no libel here, either. What I did was mock you. I thought you deserved it at the time of the slantsix.org thread, and I still do. I know you don't agree, and that's fine. Plenty of people have mocked me over the years; it didn't kill me and sometimes I deserved it. The same is probably true for you.

Can you guarantee me that it won't get damaged, lost, stolen, or whatever?

Can you guarantee a sinkhole won't open up below your left foot and swallow you up as you make your way down the street to pick up a blue raspberry Slurpee? Life's full of risks, dude. The one you're claiming to be all askeered of isn't high on the list of realistic ones. It's absolutely your choice what to do with your own camshaft; nobody disputes that. But I think you're being a dillweed about it. Others might or might not share my opinion, and they might or might not post their thoughts on the matter. That's life on the internet.

keep your arrogant self centered opinion of others to yourself!

LOL. OK, I guess you da boss man!

Er, you do realise—or maybe I guess you don't—that you just threw a spotlight on yourself, right? My snarky sarcasm about your attitude was fading into the past, then you came on here outta nowhere, bellyaching about it. Before, maybe three people would've cared enough to go look at the slantsix.org thread and see the gaps in the thread where your mealymouthed posts got deleted by moderators. Now here you are, babbling about slander, throwin' gasoline on a fire that was almost out. Smart? I don't think so, but you're entitled to your own opinion on that matter, too.
 
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blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

That's life on the internet, too. See? Common ground!

Nye_Party_Fweet.gif
 
Doubt it. That's Comp's "one baby-step above stock" cam offering. 252° is its advertised duration. Its duration at 0.050" is 215°. But I still don't recommend it.



Well, it is a bird in the hand. But it looks like this one, (264° advertised duration). I don't think it's what I'd want to use on a turbo motor—its lobe separation looks kinda close to me; you don't wanna be blowing your boost through the cylinder and out the exhaust pipe while both valves are open. But that's just general principle; I've not built a turbo slant motor, so I'm not the right guy to make a specific cam recommendation for one.



Oil passages not drilled to line up with oil-in and oil-out holes in the rearmost cam bearing. See here (and while you're at it, see here)



It's not necessarily something that can be seen by just picking up a cam and eyeballing the worm gear. Sometimes (as described in the last post of this thread) but sometimes not. Best insurance seems to be avoiding the faulty-cam-blank gamble altogether, and instead sending a known-good original cam to Oregon Cam (or another camshaft house) for regrind to your specs or theirs of your choosing



Dan, I appreciate the information!

My application is a "race car" only, and as such, is never driven in traffic. That allows me to get away with all sorts of things that would never work on the street.... primarily because this engine never sees much accrued mileage or hours of operation. I can ride herd on lots of things that would give me problems, for sure, if I drove this vehicle like a daily-driver.

Having said that, the cam's distributor drive gear will get examined frequently, as will the top-end lubrication, and if a problem becomes evident, I will, as a stop-gap measure, probably just pour a pint or so, of oil onto the rocker arms and shaft, so things don't get too dry. This motor only runs for a few minutes at a time.... and at that, only six or eight times a year.

And, because it's a turbo motor, I have taken the coward's way out, and run a locked-plate in my distributor... there is no spark advance "curve" because the distributor has no advance mechanism, nor does it have a vacuum advance system. It's an old "Lean Burn" unit and is adjusted to 18 degrees advance on the crank. It starts immediately, has no "run-on" after it is shut off and so far, doesn't detonate. Set it and forget it.

I may be leaving some "horsepower on the table" with this setup, but if I am, I don't believe it's much. It pulls 3,000 pounds through the eighth-mile at 91 mph, and that, according to the Wallace calculator, requires about 360 horsepower. That is utilizing 15 pounds of boost. I plan to increase the boost to 20, then 25 pounds, which should allow for significant performance increases, down the road.

My engine is a carbon-copy (virtual clone) of two successful turbocharged, carbureted 225's and has benefitted GREATLY from input from two FABO members, Tom Wolfe and Ryan Peterson who built those engines. Each of their engines makes a little over 500 horsepower, and they both have made my efforts to duplicate their achievements, just a "money-see;monkey do" activity on my part. If my car doesn't run as well as theirs, it won't be their fault.... it will be due to my ham-handed efforts at making all this work right.

Here's Ryan's '66 Valiant....

I am a newbie at this, but I can tell you this: I am a big fan of forced induction on the slant six because 1. It responds so VERY well to boost, to the extent of making it a whole lot faster than it has any right to be, and 2. Its incredibly strong architecture, probably due to its heritage relative to aluminum... it is almost like a Diesel in that respect, and can withstand boost levels that would make scrap-iron out of most other motors. My friend, Ryan told me that he has run as much as 37 pounds (no typo) on his 225 with no apparent damage.

It's not cheap and it's not easy, but, I am convinced that pulling a slant six out of Grannie's Duster, when she's gone, and replacing it with a V8 is a BIG mistake! Turbo the slant motor; it'll probably be faster!

But, that's just me...
 
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I had a nice talk today with Ken at Oregon Cams and I've decided that I'm going to go with the 1947 grind
224 duration at 50
110 lobe separation
470 lift with a 1.5 rocker arm
 
I had a nice talk today with Ken at Oregon Cams and I've decided that I'm going to go with the 1947 grind
224 duration at 50
110 lobe separation
470 lift with a 1.5 rocker arm

any comments on the cam I have chosen to go with

Perhaps some additional info would be helpful - how far down in the hole will your pistons be; are they stock flattop pistons or have a valve relief, was the block and/or head cut, when CCing the head, what did you come up with.
 
any comments on the cam I have chosen to go with
You're making a huge mistake. The foregoing is indeed a comment but not based on anything so I advise you to to ignore it.

Seriously, can you tell us what you will be doing with the car? Running the Bonneville salt flats? Hauling hay around the farm? The application is what mostly drives the cam....
 
I'm going to drive the car on the street the Pistons are 5 Cc above a flat top kb239 with valve reliefs the head has not been cc,d yet I just got the valves head is cut 70 thousandth I'm running a 355 gears with a 4-speed regular 4 Speed dual 1bbl set up with w40 strombergs
 
That cam does not seem to radical at all, and with your gearing, it ought to get around pretty well. Not a low end stump-puller cam for a truck or station wagon, and not the ultimate high revver. Seems like an 'in-between' cam and is around where I would probably end up for a hopped up street driven engine with a 4 speed. For whatever my view is worth....LOL
 
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