Newbie with a '65 Dart crew cab

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BKCowGod

BKCowGod

Well-Known Member
Joined
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Location
Santa Cruz, CA
Hi all! I sorta made an impulse purchase last weekend and now I have a new daily driver. Base everything other than the 225 and automatic. It is essentially bone stock with the exception of some ancient aftermarket A/C and an awesome late 80's tape deck. Also not a hint of rust top or bottom. So far I have replaced the 30 year old tires (guys at Pep Boys got a kick out of installing the tires) and shock absorbers, rebuilt the carb, and made some small wiring fixes. Also replaced all the instrument bulbs with LEDs. Big item on the list is an electric ignition.

Car has been super reliable for the last week, but having charging issues - ammeter jumping around, everything showing 12v whether the engine is running or not. With the car off, turning on the headlights makes the ammeter drop. No change when I bypass the green wire from alternator to voltage regulator. No change when I toss in the big ol' Powermaster alternator I had sitting around. Big spark when I jumper the alternator. Tomorrow I plan on replacing the voltage regulator, but if anybody has any other suggestions I am open.
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But.....

When load is placed on the system, the ammeter notices.

So is there another issue?
 
I am 100% open to any suggestions! To be clear, this is with the car off. This (seems to) tell me that the ammeter is still functioning and therefore removes that potential issue, but I am also an idiot.
 
Some basics.

Car off, alternator not in play.

Apply load (headlights, radio, etc.) and the ammeter notices the drop in current.

Car on, alternator working, the ammeter will still notice the load.

From what you have stated so far, it does not appear to be a problem?
 
All of this is correct. Only problem is it is also not charging the battery at all. Showing 12v +/- 0.5 with car running or off.
 
The alternator is there to 'maintain' the battery and operating systems.

Applying a voltmeter / multi-meter to the system is enough to create a 'load' on the system.

If the battery is not going dead, it is OK.
 
It's an amp gauge. It's gonna show a draw with accessories on. What does it show with accessories on AND at about 2000 RPM?
 
RustyRatRod said:
It's an amp gauge. It's gonna show a draw with accessories on. What does it show with accessories on AND at about 2000 RPM?
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It doesn't move with engine speed. Volt gauge and known good multimeter both show nothing higher than 12v and no change to voltage with RPM changes. Correct me if I am wrong, but I should be at least 13-14.5 even if there's no amperage registering.
 
BKCowGod said:
It doesn't move with engine speed. Volt gauge and known good multimeter both show nothing higher than 12v and no change to voltage with RPM changes. Correct me if I am wrong, but I should be at least 13-14.5 even if there's no amperage registering.
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Yup. Sounds like it's not charging. Have you checked it at the battery as well?
 
RustyRatRod said:
Yup. Sounds like it's not charging. Have you checked it at the battery as well?
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Checked against pos/neg terminals on the battery, the dash gauge (an aftermarket unit I installed for this purpose), and the big terminal on the starter solenoid, as well as on the alternator itself. Also bridged a big 4 gauge wire I had sitting around from the alternator to the starter solenoid to the starter battery connection. Verified no resistance on all wires, including the fusible link from starter solenoid to bulkhead connector. Good news is no voltage drop anywhere. Bad news is no voltage bump!

New voltage regulator arrives tomorrow morning, that's the next step.

On an aside, the Faria Kronos is a nice little voltmeter for under $30, made in the USA, with a good match to the original Dart gauges.
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Ok, did you check between the positive post on the alternator and ground?
 
RustyRatRod said:
Ok, did you check between the positive post on the alternator and ground?
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Yup, showed the same 12v there (this post is directly connected to the battery by way of the starter solenoid/starter link - I didn't think to remove the direct connection, but in theory doing so would likely cause more problems rather than fewer.
 
You should be able to go to battery shop parts store or anywhere and have your alternator and battery check for free...
Also did they say anything about the lug nuts on the left side of the car?...
 
Big dummy said:
You should be able to go to battery shop parts store or anywhere and have your alternator and battery check for free...
Also did they say anything about the lug nuts on the left side of the car?...
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I warned them and they were so excited to find that the rear wheel had reverse but the front didn't.
 
Welcome.... I use to live on Swift Street, don't remember there being a Pep Boys in Santa Cruz...

The early alternator/voltage regulator applies 12v to the alternator through the regulator so there needs to be 12v on the blue wire, the regulator will send that 12v to the field windings to cause the alternator to charge...

You can cheat and jumper 12v from the Batt terminal of the alternator to the field terminal of the alternator to test the alternator... If applying 12v to the field doesn't cause the alternator to charge then the regulator ain't gonna help...

Oh, you mentioned swapping alternators, did the new alternator have one or two field terminals? For that matter did the original alternator have one or two field terminals? If there are two one needs to be grounded....

Starting in 1970 Chrysler went to the two terminal design.. They applied a switched 12v feed to one of the terminals & the regulator changed from applying 12v to applying a switched ground...

You can use the later alternator but you must ground one of the field terminals..
 
1WildRT said:
Welcome.... I use to live on Swift Street, don't remember there being a Pep Boys in Santa Cruz...

The early alternator/voltage regulator applies 12v to the alternator through the regulator so there needs to be 12v on the blue wire, the regulator will send that 12v to the field windings to cause the alternator to charge...

You can cheat and jumper 12v from the Batt terminal of the alternator to the field terminal of the alternator to test the alternator... If applying 12v to the field doesn't cause the alternator to charge then the regulator ain't gonna help...

Oh, you mentioned swapping alternators, did the new alternator have one or two field terminals? For that matter did the original alternator have one or two field terminals? If there are two one needs to be grounded....

Starting in 1970 Chrysler went to the two terminal design.. They applied a switched 12v feed to one of the terminals & the regulator changed from applying 12v to applying a switched ground...

You can use the later alternator but you must ground one of the field terminals..
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One field terminal is grounded. Jumpering from batt to the other field terminal which also had green wire (with the tried and true "touch it to the terminal and wince" method) caused big spark. Original alternator was ORIGINAL alternator. Only one terminal. Changing between the two caused no change to symptoms.

Now that I think of it I didn't look specifically for 12v on the blue wire.

And I say Santa Cruz but it is currently not quite true - house in the mountains went boom in the CZU fires so I am living indefinitely on the wrong side of the hill. Will always be a Santa Cruz Mountains kid at heart no matter what my address says.
 
Big spark means you completed a circuit, maybe bad, maybe good... Try it again while paying attention to the wire, if it gets hot remove it, thats bad... If it doesn't immediately get hot look at your meter, is it charging? If so check that blue wire for 12v...

Sorry to hear about your home...
 
1WildRT said:
Big spark means you completed a circuit, maybe bad, maybe good... Try it again while paying attention to the wire, if it gets hot remove it, thats bad... If it doesn't immediately get hot look at your meter, is it charging? If so check that blue wire for 12v...

Sorry to hear about your home...
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Thanks much, will add that to the list for tomorrow morning.

And ya know, the house was insured and we got the dogs and the people and a lot of art out. A lot of beautiful cars didn't escape, and a lot of people were left with nothing due to insurance cancellations. And you haven't lived until you've muscled a piano onto a trailer while flames crest a ridgeline above you.
 
Big dummy said:
You should be able to go to battery shop parts store or anywhere and have your alternator and battery check for free...
Also did they say anything about the lug nuts on the left side of the car?...
Click to expand...
He already knows more than they do. Those parts store people are like monkeys tryin to **** a football.
 
BKCowGod said:
One field terminal is grounded. Jumpering from batt to the other field terminal which also had green wire (with the tried and true "touch it to the terminal and wince" method) caused big spark. Original alternator was ORIGINAL alternator. Only one terminal. Changing between the two caused no change to symptoms.

Now that I think of it I didn't look specifically for 12v on the blue wire.

And I say Santa Cruz but it is currently not quite true - house in the mountains went boom in the CZU fires so I am living indefinitely on the wrong side of the hill. Will always be a Santa Cruz Mountains kid at heart no matter what my address says.
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Awful sorry about that. Maybe we can help you get your car like it's supposed to be anyway.
 
Glad you were insured & got the most important things out.... Most stuff can be replaced, lives can't... I've helped friends get out of the way of fires & floods so yeah, I get it...
 
RustyRatRod said:
He already knows more than they do. Those parts store people are like monkeys tryin to **** a football.
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I used to drive an Audi S4 with a 5 cylinder motor. Every time I had to get new spark plugs they tried to patiently explain to me that I didn't need a spare.
 
BTW If attaching the wire gets it charging be ready to disconnect the wire cause the voltage can climb rather quickly & to much voltage will damage stuff..
 
1WildRT said:
BTW If attaching the wire gets it charging be ready to disconnect the wire cause the voltage can climb rather quickly & to much voltage will damage stuff..
Click to expand...

I distinctly remember the smell of cooking batteries when I lost the regulator on my Land Rover. 15 miles from pavement and 25 miles from cell service.
 
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