Noisy Lifters

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bobscuda67

bobscuda67

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Just wondering if the Crane Anti Pump up lifters are normally noisy.
I have them adjusted 1/4 turn from zero lash on a 24 thread stud. They are quiet when the oil is cool, but the hotter the oil , the louder they get. This is on a Comp XE 274 cam with 16 inches of vacuum at idle in park.
I tried 1/2 turn adjustment and the valves hang open with vacuum going down to 13 inches.
These things are really touchy on the adjustments.
The oil pressure is really good at 65 pounds at a cold idle and 55 pounds hot idle.
Just wondering if I should be concerned about it. Thanks!
 
I know the crane lifters in my 70 340 Duster were the same way. You really couldn't hear them when first started but when at running temp. they were noisy.
 
It's the cam. The XE274H is a noisy cam. Got some crazy ramp rate to it. I got that cam with a stock stamped setup and it's noisy too. That's what the exhaust is for right?
 
Sounds like they are a little too anti-pump-up,lol. Sounds like they are doing their job.
The XE274 specs out at 274/286/110 lift:.488/.491 & .050 numbers are 230/236

I have the Hughes Engines version of that cam;
HE3037; 276/286/110, lift: .515/.535. The .050 specs are 230/237. I run 1.6 arms and the math works out to .549/.571 lift.
Hughes specs their cams at .008 lift whereas Comp specs at .006, so the Hughes cam may be a tad bigger than 276/286 when re-spec'd for .006
Be that as it may, this cam and lifter set is almost dead-quiet with their 5003 performance lifters and .020 preload. And they go 7000/7200 all the time.They say these lifters are anti-pump-ups too, and That I should expect noise.Sometimes I might hear a couple at idle,or maybe a few, but mostly not. They've been in there since 2004ish.
I just drive the berries off it whenever I ca....
 
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They are not supposed to have hardly any preload at all. Anti pump up lifters are supposed to have anywhere from .002" preload to .002" lash. Anymore preload than about .002" and they do not work correctly.
 
RustyRatRod said:
They are not supposed to have hardly any preload at all. Anti pump up lifters are supposed to have anywhere from .002" preload to .002" lash. Anymore preload than about .002" and they do not work correctly.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind, Anti Pump Up and fast bleed lifters like Rhoads are two DIFFERENT types of lifters. Crane markets their version of Rhoads lifters under the name High intensity. Those are NOT Anti Pump lifters. Make sure of what you have.
 
Well my Crane Anti pump ups were ran on a MP 284/484 and were quite noisy. I was running Crane roller rockers set close to zero. Course that was many moons ago.
 
The lifters part number is 99278-16 from Crane.
I also have Crane 1.6 ratio roller rockers on it with the guide plates too because I'm using Magnum heads. I guess the rockers could be making noise too.
I used the Xe 274 just because it has a lower lift than the Hughes. The last Hughes cam I had started having really small pits forming on the nose of the lobe and I thought that the Comp would be easier on the valvetrain.
I guess it sounds normal, just annoying as hell.
 
I went with Hughes, for the area under the curve. I have not been disappointed. 93mph in the 1/8, for such a basic pkg impressed me.And that cam just pulls and pulls and pulls.
I always wanted to put it on the dyno, just to see the curve, and generate shift points. But in the end I didn't care enough to spend the coin. It spins 295s, with 3.55s, to well past the speed limit anywhere; in Manitoba,in Canada, and probably in the USA too.So I failed to see the usefulness of a dyno sheet.
I used to wonder too, what she would do with Magnums...But I think they'd have too much compression to run on pump gas.
If you think your anti pump-ups are noisy;Just be glad you don't have solid lifters. V8 solids,are not like slanty solids.....heehee
My winter beater has a slanty with solids, set at .013/.022; and it sounds like a little sewing machine. A friend of mine has a 68GTX 440 with solids, and whoeee, I can always hear him coming! Honey, put the coffee on; Dave will be by in a bit.......
 
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I'm thinking this winter I plan on removing the engine and to go through it. I want to replace the 274 cam and lifters with something a little more mild.
 
Well, I myself once did that.
But Gee, I was thinking the 230* was a really nice street cam.I had a 249er and that was waaaaay too big for me. When I switched, I was serious; I went to a 223*fast-rate. I'd probably still be running that cam, If somebody woulda sent me a letter saying they were going to take the Zddp outta the oil. As it was,she dropped 2lobes right after an oil change. And then I got a lil greedy and moved up a size and a half to the 230* fast rate.For me that hit the spot.
I have to admit that the 223 was a bit stronger from idle to about 3000. But I solved that with a deeper starter gear. But the 230 is so much nicer on top, and the pull goes on forever, it seems like.
Whatever you decide, good luck.

BTW; 1/4 turn on a 24tpi stud is 10.5 thou or .0104inch. I heard Rusty likes to run em at Zero +/- .002, but I run .020, or 1/2 turn. She still goes 7200 and she stays quieter, longer. It's been several years since her last adjustment. But hold on, that's not saying much. That may only be 10,000 miles or likely even less.
 
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AJ/FormS said:
Well, I myself once did that.
But Gee, I was thinking the 230* was a really nice street cam.I had a 249er and that was waaaaay too big for me. When I switched, I was serious; I went to a 223*fast-rate. I'd probably still be running that cam, If somebody woulda sent me a letter saying they were going to take the Zddp outta the oil. As it was,she dropped 2lobes right after an oil change. And then I got a lil greedy and moved up a size and a half to the 230* fast rate.For me that hit the spot.
I have to admit that the 223 was a bit stronger from idle to about 3000. But I solved that with a deeper starter gear. But the 230 is so much nicer on top, and the pull goes on forever, it seems like.
Whatever you decide, good luck.
Click to expand...

I think the 230 area is great for a street cam, pulls great vacuum, can run power everything, can be good for 1.5 hp per cube, great torque off the line but still pulls into 6k RPM. 240 makes it pretty hot. Anything bigger and you have to start making "sacrifices" as in dropping power stuff. Higher in gear idle. Etc.
 
RustyRatRod said:
They are not supposed to have hardly any preload at all. Anti pump up lifters are supposed to have anywhere from .002" preload to .002" lash. Anymore preload than about .002" and they do not work correctly.
Click to expand...

Interesting...

I am about to adjust my valves, and I have the Crane anti-pump up lifters with a Comp XE285HL.
Both Comp and Crane give generic instructions on adjusting valves. Why wouldn't Crane mention this? How would I even measure to get only .002 of preload? I was worried my preload is too loose. I am only getting 8-9hg of vacuum. Please advise...
 
AJ/FormS said:
Well, I myself once did that.
But Gee, I was thinking the 230* was a really nice street cam.I had a 249er and that was waaaaay too big for me. When I switched, I was serious; I went to a 223*fast-rate. I'd probably still be running that cam, If somebody woulda sent me a letter saying they were going to take the Zddp outta the oil. As it was,she dropped 2lobes right after an oil change. And then I got a lil greedy and moved up a size and a half to the 230* fast rate.For me that hit the spot.
I have to admit that the 223 was a bit stronger from idle to about 3000. But I solved that with a deeper starter gear. But the 230 is so much nicer on top, and the pull goes on forever, it seems like.
Whatever you decide, good luck.

BTW; 1/4 turn on a 24tpi stud is 10.5 thou or .0104inch. I heard Rusty likes to run em at Zero +/- .001, but I run .020, or 1/2 turn. She still goes 7200 and she stays quieter, longer. It's been several years since her last adjustment. But hold on, that's not saying much. That may only be 10,000 miles or likely even less.
Click to expand...

I had the Hughes 223/ 228 cam that I liked until the lobes started pitting. That cam worked really well in my car because it's a 340 with a 358 stroke crank without headers. The 0 to 3000 power it made was right in the sweet spot of the engine. I was just going to replace it with the same one but Hughes redesigned it with more lift and my heads 1110 valve springs, at 120 pounds seat pressure, was not going to work. I didn't want to change the springs.
Called Comp to see if the XE268 would be alright, there tech talked me into the XE274.
!0,000 miles! I haven't driven my car over 1500 miles since I've had it, 20 years.
 
bobscuda67 said:
I had the Hughes 223/ 228 cam that I liked until the lobes started pitting. That cam worked really well in my car because it's a 340 with a 358 stroke crank without headers. The 0 to 3000 power it made was right in the sweet spot of the engine. I was just going to replace it with the same one but Hughes redesigned it with more lift and my heads 1110 valve springs, at 120 pounds seat pressure, was not going to work. I didn't want to change the springs.
Called Comp to see if the XE268 would be alright, there tech talked me into the XE274.
!0,000 miles! I haven't driven my car over 1500 miles since I've had it, 20 years.
Click to expand...
That is the exact cam I have in my 360 Dart now. Works great but then I'm a big fan of Hughes cams.
 
KnucklDuster
Yeah, Ima thinking that's going to be messy. That's an awefully small target.And It's gonna take some tinkering. 8/9 sounds about right for an XE285HL. Depends on your idle-timing.

Hey Bob,
looks like we might be running similar combos; I'm at 4.04 bore by 3.58 stroke, pistons up .005. OOTB Eddies and the venerable AG/750DP, but Ima guessing you are running iron heads? What Scr and what octane can you run?
Those 1110s are the cat's meow on my heads.That 367 doesn't know when to quit. I had to buy a rev-limiter, cuz this one time I missed a shift with my foot flat on the floor.I was in the heat of the battle, so have no idea what she reved to. By the time I looked over there, the needle was coming down towards 8000. It wasn't long after that and I installed a rev limiter.And then I fixed that dad-gummed shifter once and for all time. I haven't missed a shift since about 2004/2005.Those 1110s really work.
Oh, I see what you mean, their cams are all different now, and the current springs are all different. Now I'm confused. I think I ran the Edelbrock springs with the 223* cam. And I know for sure I bought new springs for the 230* cam. And I kindof think they were 1110s.In any case, I installed what Dave called for.

My chassis has 125,000 miles that I put on it with two engines. My winter motor was a teener, and it put on 25,000, during the first 4 winters. The rest is all 367 yup,yup,youbet; 100,000MILES on the old girl. I haven't noticed any power loss yet, but hey, we are both 17 years older now than when she first hit the road, in fall of 99.

And ROY;
I'm a big fan of Hughes,too. In '99 they were the only fast-rates out there, and they just seem to be getting faster all the time.My 230*s got a lot of miles on her; maybe 80,000 miles.
 
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KnuckleDuster said:
Interesting...

I am about to adjust my valves, and I have the Crane anti-pump up lifters with a Comp XE285HL.
Both Comp and Crane give generic instructions on adjusting valves. Why wouldn't Crane mention this? How would I even measure to get only .002 of preload? I was worried my preload is too loose. I am only getting 8-9hg of vacuum. Please advise...
Click to expand...

Where is your preload now?
 
It's not about what Rusty likes. It's about how anti pump up lifters have been adjusted since their inception. Call Crane.

AJ/FormS said:
Well, I myself once did that.
But Gee, I was thinking the 230* was a really nice street cam.I had a 249er and that was waaaaay too big for me. When I switched, I was serious; I went to a 223*fast-rate. I'd probably still be running that cam, If somebody woulda sent me a letter saying they were going to take the Zddp outta the oil. As it was,she dropped 2lobes right after an oil change. And then I got a lil greedy and moved up a size and a half to the 230* fast rate.For me that hit the spot.
I have to admit that the 223 was a bit stronger from idle to about 3000. But I solved that with a deeper starter gear. But the 230 is so much nicer on top, and the pull goes on forever, it seems like.
Whatever you decide, good luck.

BTW; 1/4 turn on a 24tpi stud is 10.5 thou or .0104inch. I heard Rusty likes to run em at Zero +/- .002, but I run .020, or 1/2 turn. She still goes 7200 and she stays quieter, longer. It's been several years since her last adjustment. But hold on, that's not saying much. That may only be 10,000 miles or likely even less.
Click to expand...
 
Yes you are right, I misspoke.
I just don't like the racket they make at that light setting, and the frequency of adjustment; call me lazy. I mean the whole idea of hydraulics is quiet automatic operation, right?
I tried 1/4 turn(.010), But by the end of the summer some where noisy, the next spring they were at 3/8 turn, and wouldn't you know it, by fall,a couple were noisy again. So the next spring they were set at 1/2 turn. Then I didn't hear them for thousands and thousands of miles. And the engine still ran up to 7200, and the engine still idled at whatever,. So I settled on .020 for preload on my Hughes anti-pump-ups.
Fast forward about 10 years, and I'm hearing a couple again, but now I'm really, really lazy, so Ima justa gonna wait til a few more are noisy,heehee.
 
The whole idea of standard hydraulic lifters is quiet operation.......anti pump ups on the other hand..........

I mean, either you build a real high performance engine or not. **** or get off the pot. Don't use something that's a KNOWN high performance part, will make noise and then ***** piss and moan about it.
 
RustyRatRod said:
Where is your preload now?
Click to expand...
Its been a couple years and maybe 2000 miles. I followed the generic directions and went a quarter turn past feeling tension spinning the pushrods.
The ones on the base of the lobes spin pretty easy now so thought it may be time to readjust.
 
AJ/FormS said:
KnucklDuster
Yeah, Ima thinking that's going to be messy. That's an awefully small target.And It's gonna take some tinkering. 8/9 sounds about right for an XE285HL. Depends on your idle-timing.

Hey Bob,
looks like we might be running similar combos; I'm at 4.04 bore by 3.58 stroke, pistons up .005. OOTB Eddies and the venerable AG/750DP, but Ima guessing you are running iron heads? What Scr and what octane can you run?
Those 1110s are the cat's meow on my heads.That 367 doesn't know when to quit. I had to buy a rev-limiter, cuz this one time I missed a shift with my foot flat on the floor.I was in the heat of the battle, so have no idea what she reved to. By the time I looked over there, the needle was coming down towards 8000. It wasn't long after that and I installed a rev limiter.And then I fixed that dad-gummed shifter once and for all time. I haven't missed a shift since about 2004/2005.Those 1110s really work.
Oh, I see what you mean, their cams are all different now, and the current springs are all different. Now I'm confused. I think I ran the Edelbrock springs with the 223* cam. And I know for sure I bought new springs for the 230* cam. And I kindof think they were 1110s.In any case, I installed what Dave called for.

My chassis has 125,000 miles that I put on it with two engines. My winter motor was a teener, and it put on 25,000, during the first 4 winters. The rest is all 367 yup,yup,youbet; 100,000MILES on the old girl. I haven't noticed any power loss yet, but hey, we are both 17 years older now than when she first hit the road, in fall of 99.

And ROY;
I'm a big fan of Hughes,too. In '99 they were the only fast-rates out there, and they just seem to be getting faster all the time.My 230*s got a lot of miles on her; maybe 80,000 miles.
Click to expand...

My block is a 4.070 bore with zero deck pistons on iron stock valve magnum heads. I have an air gap intake and a 650 Edelbrock carb. I'm using 340 exhaust manifolds that chokes it down some. My comp ratio is 10.67 but the volume measurement between the block wall and piston to the first ring was never recorded. So it's not really that high. I use 93 pump premium for fuel with no ping that you can hear.
 
bobscuda67 said:
My block is a 4.070 bore with zero deck pistons on iron stock valve magnum heads. I have an air gap intake and a 650 Edelbrock carb. I'm using 340 exhaust manifolds that chokes it down some. My comp ratio is 10.67 but the volume measurement between the block wall and piston to the first ring was never recorded. So it's not really that high. I use 93 pump premium for fuel with no ping that you can hear.
Click to expand...
Woops! It's 10.067
 
bobscuda67 said:
My block is a 4.070 bore with zero deck pistons on iron stock valve magnum heads. I have an air gap intake and a 650 Edelbrock carb. I'm using 340 exhaust manifolds that chokes it down some. My comp ratio is 10.67 but the volume measurement between the block wall and piston to the first ring was never recorded. So it's not really that high. I use 93 pump premium for fuel with no ping that you can hear.
Click to expand...
Take a left turn at Kmart... what does that have to do with lifter noise?
 
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