NOT a very good sign for the value of mopar muscle cars

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cojohnso said:
How many A-bodies do they televise at either BJ or Mecum? Im struggling to remember even seeing two? We seem to still have a long way to go.
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I'm sure the guy that is into 1963 Novas or same year Ford Falcons feels the same way. Every brand has it's cars that don't alway get the love they deserve. As said before, enjoy what you enjoy, and never mind what everyone else thinks. The only bad part about not having one of the "popular" cars is parts availability, which is nothing new in the Mopar world as a whole.
 
moparmat2000 said:
We wouldent be paying that kind of money for 50 year old beat to **** 67-69 cuda fenders or even straight doors with rusty bottoms if AMD made repop fenders and outer door skins. Instead AMD is scaling back production on A body parts. I have what I need, but woulda been happier if I had new fenders instead of repaired ones, ditto for door skins. The outer fender and door skin stampings would fit all 3 years. Slight differences in headlight area on the 69 fender, and the usual openings for reflectors
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thats because everyone wants those parts until its time to buy those parts..
 
moparmat2000 said:
We wouldent be paying that kind of money for 50 year old beat to **** 67-69 cuda fenders or even straight doors with rusty bottoms if AMD made repop fenders and outer door skins. Instead AMD is scaling back production on A body parts. I have what I need, but woulda been happier if I had new fenders instead of repaired ones, ditto for door skins. The outer fender and door skin stampings would fit all 3 years. Slight differences in headlight area on the 69 fender, and the usual openings for reflectors
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barbee6043 said:
^^^^^With so many modern Hemi cars getting wrecked, looks like that engine at the boneyards will get pretty affordble maybe?!!
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My worry if prices drop too much, many of the parts that are reproduced will go away.

And the modern hemi swap? I guess if the engine is free, maybe the mounts, headers, wiring, computer, and manual trans adapters may then be "affordable" even then you'll invest a lot of coin and then have none of the safety equipt. from the more modern car. I'm not there yet.
 
As a younger guy (19) enjoying getting into this hobby, I like restomods, within reason. I’m constantly torn between restoring parts of my car to factory and restomodding them. So I’ve settled on wanting it to generally appear factory. I don’t see the need to restore a car to how it rolled off the lot. That being said, I also don’t want to ruin it. Touchscreen infotainment systems? They just don’t have the same feel in an old car as a radio with buttons.

So I try to keep my car appearing factory, or doing day 2 mods (gauges, different radio, speakers, A/C).

I’ve gone to all LED’s except my headlights for this reason. They can sit in the stock housings and appear factory, but they output brighter light had consume less energy.

Personally speaking, I would pay more for a well done restomod that’s in line with my vision than a painstakingly restored car, in general.
 
I have always done the day two since I am a child of that era. Or a kid I should say. 18 I was, back in '66.
A resto mod is like a custom, not everyone will like it. Only matters if and when you sell.
 
When I was in the high dollar vintage car biz hauling for my brother's dealership I saw the value of mid-60's Ferrari's drop $1,000,000 in one year. Now they are thru the roof again.
 
i believe i can see the writing on the wall regarding not only old mopars, but ALL muscle cars in general. with Chrysler now being completely gone having been acquired by the French auto company Peugeot, one can assume that the clock is now ticking on the demise of Dodge, RAM and Jeep. the new company - Stellantis - has already shut down and dismantled the SRT "performance" group within Dodge that was responsible for all the performance vehicles from Dodge over the last 20 years. AND, the new CEO of "Stellantis" has stated that the days of the "iron block internal combustion V8 motor are numbered" tells you all you need to know about the future of "mopar muscle." Finally, i've been seeing adds on Facebook and other web sites offering a big sale on RAM performance parts. my guess is that all mopar "performance parts" are being discontinued because if you are a "Frenchman" CEO who thinks electric cars are the future, why would you continue to build and sale performance parts for gas vehicles? so do not get shocked when your local Dodge parts department tells you on the phone that the Dodge hemi crate motors "are no longer available." so much for the "resto-mod" upgrades for all those B-body and E-body GTX's and Cuda's out there.

i have been trying to order a new Challenger Hellcat with a 6 speed for the last 6 months. but you can't order a manual Challenger Hellcat now, and i suspect you will NEVER be able to buy another manual shift Hellcat. so i bought a 2021 RT Challenger Scat Pack with a 6 speed. i have two Dodge dealers watching the order system weekly for me and if and when the Hellcat 6 speed becomes available, i'm going to buy one. anyone who has the money should buy a Hellcat now because 2021 will probably be the last year for them. in the next few years, Dodge will discontinue all hemis with only the v6 being available and then that will be gone by around 2028.

as to old A-body Barracudas, i am buying parts cars now. i just picked up the below two. the red one is actually an original Formula S car with the fender tag. both cars are too far gone to save but they have a lot of parts. when i get them cleaned up and inventoried, i might sell some parts that i have duplicates of. i would urge all the FABO folks to buy any old A-body they run across if they can. these cars are going away and the reproduction of their parts are going away and the day will come when keeping a 68 Dart or Barracuda in driving condition will be like the remaining American cars of Havana Cuba after Castro kicked the Americans out of his country. the Cubans have been putting tractor motors in their old 57 chevys just so they could still drive them.

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You can also "clone" a car into a resto mod...numbers matching ends up not coming into play. But there is a sect of folks probably say 30 years old now that are into rice or Honda vehicles. i have a nephew like that although i will say he was intrigued by my Dart in my garage when he was over last summer for a cookout. Asked me to open the hood etc.etc. I guess them old V8's still tickle folk's fancy.
 
As I get into the old fart category, I am leaning toward the old cars of the 40s and 50s. I stay with Mopar as that is where my knowledge is, although NOT in the earlier models. Still cheaper than GM and Ferd.
I have a 62 Savoy builder that I got cheap. I did this same build back in the 90s, slant to BB and add the 4 speed, and 8 3/4. Might be a keeper if I sell it I will make me a little $for my time. My other cars are couple of more door B bodies. Just like their style. Got them for nothing. After I finish them, IF I do, still worth very little! Other car is the 62 Lancer, wife claims it so I guess it has a home!
If the French have indeed cut the head off Mother Mopar then the modern Challenger will soon go the way of the muscle car of the 60s. NO factory anything, only parts available will be boneyards and hobbiest and horders! I am too old now to really care that much about that.
Old cars are like everything in this world, we are only caretakers for the time God lets us enjoy it all. TOO ad some will never realize that!?????
 
Hi Jim Harvard,
I think that like most things, profits will control everything. The SRT division had to be one of the most profitable sectors of the Corporation as almost every unit they make is presold. As well, the Ram truck is entering its third year as Motortrend's truck of the year and the Jeep division is doing very well also. This is why Peugeot wanted to buy it in the first place.
They are going to learn the same lesson that other manufacturers entering the USA did. Americans do not like small cars. That's why the Ford F-150 is the most popular vehicle sold. It has lots of room , is very well optioned , the price is affordable and it fits a family's lifestyle. Also, we saw the demise of smaller cars at Chrysler/Dodge already. The Dart was a last gasp at that. As for electric, its basically in its infancy, the price is too high, the affordable cars are too small , and the technology is suspect. That's why the take rate is only 1% of the total market. Once the manufacturers see that these vehicles are not selling, there will be a major market correction as they will have to take a substantial loss to sell them, the Government will have to use taxpayer money to subsidise them with rebates or a newer , cheaper cleaner technology will replace them.
Don't count out gasoline yet either. It still is the most efficient fuel out there per volume. With the rapid advances in technology we are experiencing in the world today, its quite possible that we may be able to clean up emissions to the point they are negligible. I don't see the Saudi's giving up their "cash cow" very easily and they will be the source of the funds to further explore the technology needed to clean up emissions caused by burning gasoline. Don't forget that there are presently 1.5 Billion gas powered vehicles on the road in the world today with millions added every year. These are not going to go away soon, especially in the poorer third world countries.
My bet's on the American Auto industry. They have risen to every challenge since they started making cars in the 1900's from Wars to bankruptcies to extremely stringent emission controls. The result? Way faster , more technologically advanced vehicles that are still affordable. We may be down but we are not out!!
 
Wvbuzzmaster said:
Prices need to tank for everything in my opinion. Any time anyone buys something that they label with the word “investment” they risk losing money... If you label it with “dream” you will lose money every time. Only value one should see in a car is do you like it and what is it worth to you to have it. It’s like your self esteem... don’t let others determine the value of your dream.... but in the car world... most are lucky to get into their dream right now cause prices are too high!
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Well said. For me the nice thing about "investing" in an old car is you get to own it and drive it. Let's say you bought a 70 Dart for 10,000 two years ago and invested another 5,000 and two years of your time into it making it what you want.. then you drive it for the next 10 years, that's only 1,250 a year. It's what you always wanted ~ maybe it's even your "dream" car, but now 12 years later it's time to sell it.. what's it worth? What if it's only worth 9,000 now ~ have you really lost 6,000? I say no.. you drove the car for all those years and got exactly what you wanted out of it.. there's "personal value" in that. It "cost" you another 500 a year in depreciation ~ 1,750 a year and a life time of cool Mopar memories ~ and you still have a 9,000 car to sell, not bad... in fact, I'd call that a good investment. :thumbsup:
 
lilfontleroy said:
Well said. For me the nice thing about "investing" in an old car is you get to own it and drive it. Let's say you bought a 70 Dart for 10,000 two years ago and invested another 5,000 and two years of your time into it making it what you want.. then you drive it for the next 10 years, that's only 1,250 a year. It's what you always wanted ~ maybe it's even your "dream" car, but now 12 years later it's time to sell it.. what's it worth? What if it's only worth 9,000 now ~ have you really lost 6,000? I say no.. you drove the car for all those years and got exactly what you wanted out of it.. there's "personal value" in that. It "cost" you another 500 a year in depreciation ~ 1,750 a year and a life time of cool Mopar memories ~ and you still have a 9,000 car to sell, not bad... in fact, I'd call that a good investment. :thumbsup:
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Pretty much sums it up for me right there.
 
What I see as in wrong, is the fact that Mopar keeps getting bought out!!!! It has lost its identity. Now its another subsidiary now of the French Co.

As far as our old classics being good deals, yes they are IF drive and enjoy them. Like the example above in post #92, that is true dollar and cents. If some rich fool wants to spend $100,000 and sell it later for $40,000, I figure he can afford such, but that is not the typical enthusiast.
My insurance costs for my old Mopars is not squat. I even ensure my old 95 Cummins Ram for full coverage for $380 a year instead of paying $600/yr thru the "regular" insurance co. for lability only! They refuse to offer anything but liability! Tx sucks in some ways.. I drive it only local and very little. I should sell it! But look at the price of a little but new 1/2 T pickup!
 
jimharvard said:
Barrett-Jackson is having their annual Scottsdale Arizona collector car auction right now and i'm sitting here watching all the beautiful cars getting sold.

There was just a beautiful, completely restored REAL hemi orange 69 1/2 A-12 Roadrunner 440 6 pack 4 speed that went across the block and sold for $73,000. that is at least $40k LESS than the same car would have sold for in 2015 which was the most recent height of the muscle car auction market.
i will continue to enjoy my old mopars because i never bought them with the idea that they would be my "retirement" income some day. anyone who is still buying muscle cars to "flip for big money" will likely get burned with significant loses.
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99% of these cars are not worth these prices! Rich people with more $$ than brains. And anyone who thinks a rare 318 dart is worth 10K is out of there XXXXXXX minds. (always exceptions BUT RARE). I personally will be glad when the prices drop at least 50 percent or more. Now I have a barn full of vehicles too. But I'll take every word back if someone comes up with 300k and I sell them all. lol O yes if they start to double the WORKING MAN wages than the prices should be high. But I'll take every word back if someone comes up with 300k and I sell them all. lol
 
I once saw a 1970 Plum Crazy 340 dart that looks exactly how I want my car tro be when finished, black bumble bee stripe, black vinyl top etc. It was advertised as for sale $40 grand. This was almost 20 years ago. i don't think these cars will go for that now but people still ask that price. i would think original unmolested car would maybe pull that kind of money in, as in low mileage survivor. I am not sure id pay it though. I look at 65-66 mustangs every once in a while, the prices on those can be trough the roof,and there are still alot of them around.
 
barbee6043 said:
What I see as in wrong, is the fact that Mopar keeps getting bought out!!!! It has lost its identity. Now its another subsidiary now of the French Co.

As far as our old classics being good deals, yes they are IF drive and enjoy them. Like the example above in post #92, that is true dollar and cents. If some rich fool wants to spend $100,000 and sell it later for $40,000, I figure he can afford such, but that is not the typical enthusiast.
My insurance costs for my old Mopars is not squat. I even ensure my old 95 Cummins Ram for full coverage for $380 a year instead of paying $600/yr thru the "regular" insurance co. for lability only! They refuse to offer anything but liability! Tx sucks in some ways.. I drive it only local and very little. I should sell it! But look at the price of a little but new 1/2 T pickup!
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I agree barbee6043 that the true value is in owning and enjoying old mopars. The problem starts when someone on BJ sells one for 50,000 and then everyone else thinks theirs is worth the same money. Then the new and used parts suppliers take advantage of the trend as well. Do you really think a rear decklid trim panel for a 69 Formula S is worth 400-$600.00??A piece of cheap aluminum with a badge on it but that's what the market says its worth to someone who is trying to capitalize on the market trends and make money off it.
 
Anything over the price of scrap is just salesmanship!

I love old Mopars. I love making them roadworthy. I love driving them. I figured out in the 80's I could buy one, drive it, and never lose a dime. But IF I had to restore it to like new, I would be lucky to sell it and get my $ back. Resto costs $$$$ Yes even IF you doo all the work! They never stayed around long enough to see the high prices to would get to.
It would be same today, example: buy a 68-70 Roadrunner builder, pay the idiot price for a POS, do a nut and bolt resto, IF it sold for $25000 I would have worked for free! I would have that many $in it. NO labor figured in at all! That's working on the wrong model! Some would say, it would be worth $35000. Yea right! ha But if I simply choose the right model, and I make it into a good driver and drive it, NOT do a not/bolt resto, I can sell it later and not lose a dime. I personally never want more $ in a car than I can get back out when I sell. Just me. I could drive a higher $ car, 10 years and enjoy it, lose $5000 and tell myself. it cost me only $500 a year to enjoy it. SO TRUE! All in what a person wants and what he is willing to spend vs get back?
 
What I don't get is, there was a time in the 80s when I was in High school, no one wanted Mopars UNLESS they were in good shape. Yeah a Duster with good paint ,interior and 340 stripes was a wanted ride, but a 71 Charger that needed body work .etc, no one wanted it and girls didn't want to ride in it. Fast forward to now, Mopars are gold and people who aren't even Mopar guys try and flip them. This is what drives it also.
 
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