Odd Comment in Mopar Action..

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grassy

grassy

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I read a couple of mags on a regular basis..they give me an over all of what is going one, etc..they are usually give good info but I was taken aback by this comment since this is a common swap..

From Mopar Action page 88 oct issue

"for anything other than straight-line (read dragging) use, the Green Bearings are not to be used. " .. and he wouldn't use them in a '61 300g eben it it ws used for dragging..

Any comments ?
 
Green bearings won't handle as much lateral loading as regular ones.
 
This statement is based on the fact that the stock mopar axle bearings are a tapered roller bearing, and can stand high side loading forces. The "Green" bearings are a regular ball bearing type, and as such, cannot withstand the high side loads as well as a tapered bearing, in cornering. Probally wont make much differance on the street though. Some people have said they have used the green type with no problems.
 
I have green bearings and aftermarket axels in both my cars(73 Dart Sport 340,4 speed,66 Dart 410/904.I haven,t had any problems yet?It,s been 2 years in the 73 Dart Sport running at the strip also running around the street.:toothy10:
 
I was told that the greenies were great for street use but if we wanted to go circuit racing ..we may want to change..

It looks to me that Mr. Ehrenberg hasn't done or has bothered to do his homework..however, I was quite surprised at his hard line..

I am not taking mine out.

Ian.
 
He's incredibly opinionated. Facts be damned.

You MUST HAVE vacuum advance!! MUST!
 
LXguy said:
He's incredibly opinionated. Facts be damned.

You MUST HAVE vacuum advance!! MUST!
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That's exactly the problem, as well as inflexable in thikning. While he is a wealth of info, sometimes the above lines get in the way of what could be, what is better.

I do not subscibe to that rag because it is not up to par and sometimes outright wrong. I've been doing things in what they say are absoultely wrong for years without problems and superior results.

MoPar Action? No thanks man.
 
You know, there WAS a reason Chrysler corp thought the tapered bearing was a superior design, and IT IS. "Facts be damned" E-burg has done what no other magizines have, and thats build and run his cars in competition aganst everything else out there, and has kicked *** doing it. If you dont agree with him, thats your option, but he has done more with these cars than most anyone else on an internet chat board will ever do, so take it for what it is.
 
I took the green bearings out when I did my last gear swap and went to the factory style with the adjusters. To each his own i guess.
 
I usually agree with Ehrenberg but some of his statements are based on opinion and not actual real world facts. He states that if you use spindles from a diplomat or aspen/volare on an earlier Mopar, the upper ball joint stud may break because the spindle is a little taller the ball joint stud is angled a little different . Well in theory that may be true but he hasn't seen it happen. He actually stated that himself. He's never stated that he's seen 'Green' bearings fail as far as I know. Has anyone ever tested that theory to find out? I've been a subscriber for many years and will continue to be.
 
Let me re-phase the Q. Do green-like bearings work in a GM, Ford, heavy equipment, cranes? etc.
 
I believe the Ford 9 inch uses tapered axle bearings. As for Chevys, they use roller bearings with c-clips. Have you ever seen a GM product on the side of the road with a wheel, drum and axle assembly not too far from it? That's because the c-clip broke under an axial (sideways) load. The c-clips are all that hold the axles in under cornering. Heavy equipment, trucks, etc. use tapered bearings almost exclusively. Most have "floating" axles where each axle has two tapered bearings in opposite directions for maximum load carrying, both radial and axial.

Now I agree that Ehrenberg is closed minded and opinionated (among other things,) but he knows his stuff. He also knows a lot of engineers at Chrysler and elsewhere, which is where he gets his info from.

Just because you, I or anyone else has not seen a failure doesn't mean it can't happen. If a failure (especially a catastrophic one) can be avoided why take a chance, even though the solution may not be a convenient one? I think most would agree: I wouldn't want the first failure to be on my car.

Fact: Ball bearings (such as the "green" bearings) cannot take a lot of axial load. Roller bearings cannot take any. Period! Why do you think the front wheel bearings are tapered? Most of the time ball bearings would be OK at the drags or on the street, but if you're gonna do any autocross or road racing a la Green Brick, you need tapered bearings to take the axial loads. I'm not gonna trust the "green" bearings under agressive street driving either.

I wouldn't put "green" bearings or F-body spindles on my car.
 
Mr.Ed said:
I believe the Ford 9 inch uses tapered axle bearings. As for Chevys, they use roller bearings with c-clips. Have you ever seen a GM product on the side of the road with a wheel, drum and axle assembly not too far from it? That's because the c-clip broke under an axial (sideways) load. The c-clips are all that hold the axles in under cornering. Heavy equipment, trucks, etc. use tapered bearings almost exclusively. Most have "floating" axles where each axle has two tapered bearings in opposite directions for maximum load carrying, both radial and axial.

Now I agree that Ehrenberg is closed minded and opinionated (among other things,) but he knows his stuff. He also knows a lot of engineers at Chrysler and elsewhere, which is where he gets his info from.

Just because you, I or anyone else has not seen a failure doesn't mean it can't happen. If a failure (especially a catastrophic one) can be avoided why take a chance, even though the solution may not be a convenient one? I think most would agree: I wouldn't want the first failure to be on my car.

Fact: Ball bearings (such as the "green" bearings) cannot take a lot of axial load. Roller bearings cannot take any. Period! Why do you think the front wheel bearings are tapered? Most of the time ball bearings would be OK at the drags or on the street, but if you're gonna do any autocross or road racing a la Green Brick, you need tapered bearings to take the axial loads. I'm not gonna trust the "green" bearings under agressive street driving either.

I wouldn't put "green" bearings or F-body spindles on my car.
Click to expand...
Mopar front wheel drives use a Dual BALL bearing in the hub...I replaced enough of them....when I worked at a Chrysler Dealership.
The 'Green' bearings that Dr. Diff sells are a Cheap style with a cheesey snap ring. The Mopar Performance ones are better with a one piece flange.......But they still come with a warning sheet about not recommended for autocross type driving.
AutoCrossers....anyone use them???
 
Mr.Ed said:
I believe the Ford 9 inch uses tapered axle bearings. As for Chevys, they use roller bearings with c-clips. Have you ever seen a GM product on the side of the road with a wheel, drum and axle assembly not too far from it? That's because the c-clip broke under an axial (sideways) load. The c-clips are all that hold the axles in under cornering. Heavy equipment, trucks, etc. use tapered bearings almost exclusively. Most have "floating" axles where each axle has two tapered bearings in opposite directions for maximum load carrying, both radial and axial.

Now I agree that Ehrenberg is closed minded and opinionated (among other things,) but he knows his stuff. He also knows a lot of engineers at Chrysler and elsewhere, which is where he gets his info from.

Just because you, I or anyone else has not seen a failure doesn't mean it can't happen. If a failure (especially a catastrophic one) can be avoided why take a chance, even though the solution may not be a convenient one? I think most would agree: I wouldn't want the first failure to be on my car.

Fact: Ball bearings (such as the "green" bearings) cannot take a lot of axial load. Roller bearings cannot take any. Period! Why do you think the front wheel bearings are tapered? Most of the time ball bearings would be OK at the drags or on the street, but if you're gonna do any autocross or road racing a la Green Brick, you need tapered bearings to take the axial loads. I'm not gonna trust the "green" bearings under agressive street driving either.

I wouldn't put "green" bearings or F-body spindles on my car.
Click to expand...
I agree with almost everything Mr.Ed says. Tappered roller bearings are a superior design. Just about all cars came with ball bearing front wheel bearings back in the 50's but they wouldn't hold up as well as tappered roller bearings so the ball bearings went bye bye. Will ball bearings work? Sure....but for how long? I've pulled 40+year old Mopar rear axle shafts out with original bearings that were still good. When I had my repair shop it was very rare to have to change one. Usually it was because someone screwed up the endplay on a 3rd member swap. Now 7 1/4's, Ford 7", 8", and 9" were a different story. We replaced lots of those.....all ball bearing design. GM? please....running the bearing right on the axle shaft....yeah that was a great idea. All you have to do is look at what heavy duty applications use. 3/4 ton and up trucks (the good old ones anyway) all had tappered roller bearings in the rear. The newer models that don't, are the ones that have problems. Are most green bearings good quality? Sure.....and they'll last many years before you need to replace them under normal circumstances. Are they a better design than the A7 tappered roller bearing? Not a chance.
Thanks, Mark
 
i don't know, my dart has had the same green bearings in it since around 1995. car was used as a daily drive by me back then and the next owner and since i have gotten it back in around 2005 has seen many hard miles and everything is fine with it.
 
replicaracer43 said:
If you dont agree with him, thats your option, but he has done more with these cars than most anyone else on an internet chat board will ever do, so take it for what it is.
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And thank GOD someone is out there waving and driving the MoPar flag!
As of late, I certainly fall under that catogorey. Well, Wife and kids first, dad's fun last! LOL!!
 
To continue down this thread..

Has anyone had a green bearing self destruct...and what were the circumstances....I hear the mantra...oem is better..but is this just hearsay ?

I have just come out of motocross where the mantra is....we been doing this for years so it must be the best..when it hasn't..I could not believe the heat when I started using a water based oil for the 808/125 cc bike air filters...after two years of biking in nasty, dusty conditions..I still heard it..

As for waving the MOPAR flag, I believe we all do it when we drive them..

Grassy
 
Myself and 3 other friends have been using "green bearings" in our street/strip cars for years..not one single issue for any of us..like i said before don't believe everything you read in those "rags"...thats for sure..
 
ShowAndGoResto said:
Mopar front wheel drives use a Dual BALL bearing in the hub...I replaced enough of them....when I worked at a Chrysler Dealership.
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Me too, and thanks for helping make my point.

Chrysler recommends front wheel bearing replacement after 12(!) hours of on track use in ACR Neons, while street driven cars would use up the bearings in 60 - 90k miles. I've seen Neons lose a wheel at the track from bearing failure. Not pretty!

So... back to the "green" bearings. Yeah, they'll last a long time on the street before you see one fail, but it will fail, and as I said I don't want it to be on my car.
 
So... back to the "green" bearings. Yeah, they'll last a long time on the street before you see one fail, but it will fail, and as I said I don't want it to be on my car.
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so your saying a stock tapered bearing never fails? :dontknow: **** happens man. i really think way too much is made of this debate. years ago green bearings were a common fix. god knows how many thousands of cars were and are still driving around with thousands and thousands of miles on their green bearings.
 
While it's true that a tapered roller bearing will handle more side loads than a ball bearing. The ball bearing bearings used in Green bearings or the fronts of most FWD cars are not like what you typically see as a ball bearing. They have two rows of balls with the inner race being split and pressed in from each side. these inner races wrap up onto the side of the balls providing a huge increase in the side load carring capacity over the more conventional ball bearing.

These ball bearing elements also for all practical puposes do not fail with out giving you plenty of warning. I have taken apart FWD hubs that the bearings were singing like a SOB only to find that you can't even feel any ruffness in them and the balls and races show no signs of overheating or burnnelling.

IMHO, if you have Green Bearings in your axle don't worry about them, they will let you know they are going a long time before they actually fail.

As for axles with roller bearings and the axles acting as the inner race, mopar 8.25 and I believe 9.25 are that way. FWIW, C-clips almost never fail either, the axle breaks outboard of the clip.
 
I have driven thousands of miles on my green bearings.....same with the old ones on my SBP axles. Not a single problem. I agree with Abodyjoe.....this topic is over worked. I install whatever the customer wants.

Until we see a true test by engineers that green bearings suck.....I'll dtick with mine.
 
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