oil pickup to pan interfierence

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my68barracuda

my68barracuda

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I have assembled a couple of mopar motors and have always followed the FSM instructions for oil pickup to pan interference. I read in a thread here on FABO that some aftermarket pans do not require that fit.
Got me wondering about the requirement to fit the pickup screen end tight to the pan.
I always figured it was to help hold the pickup tube tight on both ends so some secondary vibration would not get the pickup tube shaking and potentially develop a crack in the pickup tube.
So is the vibration theory a good assumption? If not why is the tube's free end set tight against the pan, and if it is accurate that some aftermarket pans do not have that requirement , why?
are the aftermarket tubes a better, less crack prone material?

just wondering???

thanks
 
I use two nickles taped to the bottom of the pick-up tube to set the clearance without a gasket, then remove the nickles and install the pan with a gasket so I do not shroud the pick-up with the pan...
 
IMG_20171215_122558726.jpg
Milodon has a .25 inch spacer which sits on the bottom of the pan.
 
my68barracuda said:
So is the vibration theory a good assumption? If not why is the tube's free end set tight against the pan, and if it is accurate that some aftermarket pans do not have that requirement , why?
Click to expand...
FWIW.... One thing that might be pertinent... the /6's in early on had an issue where if the pickup's bottom surface was not snug against the pan then customers would sometimes hear and complain of odd sounds coming from the engine. (Which I think I have in MY /6 since I did not do so! So much for ME knowing better LOL) So that may be the main reason to keep it snug to the bottom of the pan and that may have just carried over to the other engines in general... which might say that the vibration issue is not part of the factory's reasoning.
 
The secondary vibration issue is more in your head. The aftermarket uses a thicker tube for super sturdy bends. Oil pick up tube cracking is rare. But yes!

Setting the oil pick up as per factory racing instructions for racing or setting it for street driven vehicle for street use may be two different measurements
. Set accordingly.

Other oil companies set there specs up with there pick ups. Not factory pick ups.
To close to the floor will restrict oil to the pump just as bad as it being told far away. At high rpm, the demand is very high and the short comings become apparent very quickly and expensively.
 
my68barracuda said:
I have assembled a couple of mopar motors and have always followed the FSM instructions for oil pickup to pan interference. I read in a thread here on FABO that some aftermarket pans do not require that fit.
Got me wondering about the requirement to fit the pickup screen end tight to the pan.
I always figured it was to help hold the pickup tube tight on both ends so some secondary vibration would not get the pickup tube shaking and potentially develop a crack in the pickup tube.
So is the vibration theory a good assumption? If not why is the tube's free end set tight against the pan, and if it is accurate that some aftermarket pans do not have that requirement , why?
are the aftermarket tubes a better, less crack prone material?

just wondering???

thanks
Click to expand...

Post 3 pretty much covers the question you asked.
There are a lot of different designs of spacer or shroud to keep the pickup from being restricted by the pan.
On these types I want the pickup contacting the bottom of the pan so no chance of vibrations (audible or flexing the tube either one)

The kind without something to keep them off the bottom sometimes have a mounting plate welded to the side of the tube where it bolts to a main bolt head or something and some don't, so you have to take measurements to see and set where the pickup actually is.
I have seen one tube break (I assume from vibration) but it was cracked lengthways. (not that which way it cracked really matters):D
 
rumblefish360 said:
The secondary vibration issue is more in your head. The aftermarket uses a thicker tube for super sturdy bends. Oil pick up tube cracking is rare. But yes!

Setting the oil pick up as per factory racing instructions for racing or setting it for street driven vehicle for street use may be two different measurements
. Set accordingly.

Other oil companies set there specs up with there pick ups. Not factory pick ups.
To close to the floor will restrict oil to the pump just as bad as it being told far away. At high rpm, the demand is very high and the short comings become apparent very quickly and expensively.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
----this,-------------------------- 1/4 to 3/8" on wet sumps.
Click to expand...
 
I always use 1/8" space between the pan and pickup and rarely use any aftermarket pans or pickups. I never let the pickup touch the pan. I've heard here that it's wrong to do that but apparently nobody told all those engines that so they don't know to blow up.
 
moper said:
I've heard here that it's wrong to do that but apparently nobody told all those engines that so they don't know to blow up.
Click to expand...
And on so many other issues as well.
Tha carb sucks and you’ll never go fast with that...
That cam sucks, intake, head, etc.....
 
moper said:
I always use 1/8" space between the pan and pickup and rarely use any aftermarket pans or pickups. I never let the pickup touch the pan. I've heard here that it's wrong to do that but apparently nobody told all those engines that so they don't know to blow up.
Click to expand...
That won`t work on a 7000 rpm engine w/ a hi volume pump, will cause a vortex/ not good. My old funny car pan and swinging p/u has a 1/2" clearance , which I don`t like, but it`s there for a reason.
 
With all do respect - I call that bullshit.
When I was in my teens (read that as ignorant but motivated) I had a stock 340 - and I mean un-rebuilt, that I got disassembled. I put it together with new bearings, valve springs, a timing set and camshaft, an HV oil pump (because that's what the race guys told me to run back in the 80s), and a stock pickup and pan. I did clay the pickup at the request of a trusted friend and it was 1/8". That engine went to 7200 by the MSD chip and ran 5 miles of flat highway at that rpm 3 nights a week on my way home from tech school. What broke that engine wasn't the nitrous, wasn't the rpm, wasn't the teenager doing donuts in the Burger King lot, or burnout (distance) contests accross the Stop N Shop parking lot. It was really old unleaded fuel courtesy of a nice old lady that I had to use when I ran out of gas. Despite my efforts it pinged off a couple ring lands getting out of the valley I was in to get to the next gas station.
I understand your particular package probably needs more attention paid Bob. But race cars need race machining and race parts. Street cars may benefit from some of those racey bits, but often they are not needed for anything more than peace of mind and eye candy.
 
not su
moper said:
With all do respect - I call that bullshit.
When I was in my teens (read that as ignorant but motivated) I had a stock 340 - and I mean un-rebuilt, that I got disassembled. I put it together with new bearings, valve springs, a timing set and camshaft, an HV oil pump (because that's what the race guys told me to run back in the 80s), and a stock pickup and pan. I did clay the pickup at the request of a trusted friend and it was 1/8". That engine went to 7200 by the MSD chip and ran 5 miles of flat highway at that rpm 3 nights a week on my way home from tech school. What broke that engine wasn't the nitrous, wasn't the rpm, wasn't the teenager doing donuts in the Burger King lot, or burnout (distance) contests accross the Stop N Shop parking lot. It was really old unleaded fuel courtesy of a nice old lady that I had to use when I ran out of gas. Despite my efforts it pinged off a couple ring lands getting out of the valley I was in to get to the next gas station.
I understand your particular package probably needs more attention paid Bob. But race cars need race machining and race parts. Street cars may benefit from some of those racey bits, but often they are not needed for anything more than peace of mind and eye candy.
Click to expand...
Not sure of what ur driving at here, maybe u like to drive b.s. ! A "stock" 426 hemi would pump a qt. a second at dragracing revs, 5-6 qt pan aint gonna cut it w/ a higher volume pump in a 9 or 10 second super stocker. The old funny car pan I was referring to was a deal on ebay, w/ the orig type swinging p/u that was used on it, w/ 1/2 clearance. I t just happened to be the same measurements as a 7 qt. milodon pan that costs way over $300 by itself, not counting the swingin p/u and ext. oil line. I have less than $100 in the whole thing, and its a dam good oil system ! 440/505" wedge street car. Aprox 723 h.p. form the charts that were posted and bragged on , on here (fabo), " for whatever that's worth." Not a race car, well partially....
I overheard teens talking about their 340 barracudas running 9`s like sox - martins old barracudas too ! You haven`t done anything anybody else did when young and stupid!
PS, that gas station musta been a helluva long way away !--LOL
 
famous bob said:
not su

Not sure of what ur driving at here, maybe u like to drive b.s. ! A "stock" 426 hemi would pump a qt. a second at dragracing revs, 5-6 qt pan aint gonna cut it w/ a higher volume pump in a 9 or 10 second super stocker. The old funny car pan I was referring to was a deal on ebay, w/ the orig type swinging p/u that was used on it, w/ 1/2 clearance. I t just happened to be the same measurements as a 7 qt. milodon pan that costs way over $300 by itself, not counting the swingin p/u and ext. oil line. I have less than $100 in the whole thing, and its a dam good oil system ! 440/505" wedge street car. Aprox 723 h.p. form the charts that were posted and bragged on , on here (fabo), " for whatever that's worth." Not a race car, well partially....
I overheard teens talking about their 340 barracudas running 9`s like sox - martins old barracudas too ! You haven`t done anything anybody else did when young and stupid!
PS, that gas station musta been a helluva long way away !--LOL
Click to expand...

DAM I GET A LOT OF FUN OUT OF FABO !!
 
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